Anti-Palestinian Rally Exposed

9

March 29, 2009 by Gsmith

Another interview by Max Blumenthal exposing some shocking bigotry on the streets of NYC – alternately humorous, obscene and sad. Regular Americans call for exterminating all Palestinians. Notable speakers include Charles Schumer, U.S. Member of Congress.

Advertisements

9 thoughts on “Anti-Palestinian Rally Exposed

  1. Joseph says:

    Wow. Pretty eye-opening. Thanks for sharing.

  2. Joseph says:

    Hey, I keep leaving comments that disappear. Is there a reason for this?

  3. J. Madson says:

    Joseph, they may have been in moderation. You should be able to comment now at will.

  4. Joseph says:

    Okay, well I just had the following thoughts since many comments on the last post about Palestine and Isreal (CIA predicts end of Israel or something) seemed to either disregard religious concerns or emphasize the idea of God’s people Israel being brought back to the Promised Land. But what if the Palestinians are also Israel? The link below has some interesting ideas (also from alternet like the video):

    http://www.alternet.org/audits/122810/controversial_bestseller_shakes_the_foundation_of_the_israeli_state/

    Now I am not sure I’m in total agreement with all the ideas, but it is my understanding that in the ancient world invading armies didn’t remove entire populations, they removed the wealthy, the religious and political leaders. So when the descendents of those removed from Israel returned, their religion had been changed by the nations they had been removed to, and the poor classes who remained had also, while maintaining parts of their religion, changed other aspects. And each group felt antagonistic to eachother, in part because of the differences that had developed, and also because each blamed the other for the invasion and military loss that had caused the changes in the first place.

    So that was the real conflict between Samaritans and Jews in Christ’s time. And I feel that is the conflict happening now: The descendants of Jewish political and religious leaders Europeanized and returning to push the poor classes of Israelites who were left from previous invasions and have converted to Islam.

    Since this is a Mormon blog, I just thought I might suggest a different idea of what the gathering of Israel might really mean. Also, I think this provides an interesting context for the prejudices expressed in the above video.

    NOTE: I’ve noticed some other comments from a “Joseph” on this site. I am not that Joseph (at least, I don’t think I am).

  5. Joseph says:

    Well, another comment disappeared. I don’t have time to rewrite it, but my basic question is, what if the Palestinians are Israelites (a legitimate question, I think, since this is a Mormon blog)? Typically in times passed, invading armies didn’t remove entire populations, they just took the religious and political leaders. The poor were left. When the descendants of the upper classes returned, there was conflict because each group had changed, and each group blamed the other for the bad things that had happened. This was the case of the Jews and Samaritans in Christ’s time. I believe that is the conflict now. I think it puts the prejudices evident in this video in an interesting context.

  6. Grégoire says:

    Hey Joseph,

    I’m not a moderator here but I have a wordpress blog. It’s important to use the exact same name and e-mail address with every comment. Otherwise it can kick you into the spam filter.

    You ask a pretty interesting question.

    what if the Palestinians are Israelites (a legitimate question, I think, since this is a Mormon blog)?

    I’m not precisely sure how you define Israelite. Some Arabs (Muslims and Christians) are Israelis. They have a name for these in Hebrew. It’s like “48er” or something (I forget). These were the original inhabitants who stayed put during the war of independence. There’s a big population of 48er citizens up on the north coast near Haifa. There are also Druze (an interesting Shii Muslim offshoot which probably is its own religion at this point) and some Yazidi too (a sort of Indo-Aryan paganism community).

    The Arabs who left Israel during the 1948 war didn’t get to come back. They had their houses bulldozed and their land stolen. These are the people whose descendants live in refugee camps today. They get Israeli passports, but in the citizenship field they say “UNDEFINED”. Some of them managed to acquire citizenship in Jordan and Egypt, but most are simply stateless refugees with no home.

    These are the people who are suffering most. It’s interesting to note that Israel is full of blue eyed White people from places like Holland and Ukraine, whose only tie to Israel is being Jewish, while the stateless Palestinians have lived in the area for hundreds of years.

    Anyway, I don’t have any comment on the religious aspect of the disagreement, but that’s my understanding of the political conflict.

  7. Joseph says:

    Thank you for the insight. I’m certainly not claiming to be an expert on the area. I think that since this is a Mormon blog I was trying to look at why an adherence to Mormon religion doesn’t automatically mean unconditional support for the nation of “Israel.” As far as what is meant by “Israelites,” that’s also not something I claim to have a full grasp on.

    Once again, I did really appreciate this video. It was really eye-opening.

  8. Forest Simmons says:

    Joseph,

    I’m glad somebody else can see the relevance of the fact that Israeli Jews of recent European extraction are not the only descendants of Israel (Jacob) in the middle East.

    In fact, as prophets from Moses and Zenos on down to Isaiah, Jeremiah, and Nephi prophesied, covenant breaking Israel would be scattered among the heathen, and righteous groups would be led to “precious lands.” About 600 BC Nephi said …

    1 Ne. 17: 38 And he leadeth away the righteous into precious lands, and the wicked he destroyeth, and curseth the land unto them for their sakes.

    Also …

    1 Ne. 22: 3 Wherefore, the things of which I have read are things pertaining to things both temporal and spiritual; for it appears that the house of Israel, sooner or later, will be scattered upon all the face of the earth, and also among all nations.
    4 And behold, there are many who are already lost from the knowledge of those who are at Jerusalem. Yea, the more part of all the tribes have been led away; and they are scattered to and fro upon the isles of the sea; and whither they are none of us knoweth, save that we know that they have been led away.
    5 And since they have been led away, these things have been prophesied concerning them, and also concerning all those who shall hereafter be scattered and be confounded, because of the Holy One of Israel; for against him will they harden their hearts; wherefore, they shall be scattered among all nations and shall be hated of all men.

    If the children of Israel were already scattered all over the face of the earth more than 2500 years ago, and mixed in with the heathen, thereby losing a knowledge of their identity for the most part, then it is easy to understand why it is extremely unlikely that there is anybody alive today that does not have Abraham. Isaac, and Jacob in their family tree (whether they know it or not). Consider the fact that your pedigree chart for 2500 years back (about 625 generations) would have over 10 to the 188 slots in the 625th generation to get an idea of how unlikely it would be that none of these slots was filled by a descendant of Israel, given that they were already mixed in with people all over the face of the earth at that time, including wherever most of your ancestors come from.

    So which of us earthlings do not qualify for the covenant blessings of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob?

    Nephi explains:

    2 Ne. 30: 2 For behold, I say unto you that as many of the Gentiles as will repent are the covenant people of the Lord; and as many of the Jews as will not repent shall be cast off; for the Lord covenanteth with none save it be with them that repent and believe in his Son, who is the Holy One of Israel.

    In other words, those that do the works of Abraham are the children of Abraham.

    Now that all the living humans are descendant of Israel, “Gentile” becomes a role, not a lineage (or lack thereof). At least that is the usage of the term throughout Book of Mormon prophecy of the latter-days. Avraham Gileadi wrote entire chapter entitled “The Gentiles of the House of Israel” in one of his treatises on the Book of Isaiah explaining this usage in the scriptures.

    The Israeli Jews are acting like Gentiles in the same way that European Americans have acted like Gentiles in scattering the indigenous Americans from their precious lands.

    Nephi says that in order to bring this kind of injustice to an end, the Lord will have to “make bare his holy arm.” See the rest of 1 Nephi 22 for the details:

    7 And it meaneth that the time cometh that after all the house of Israel have been scattered and confounded, that the Lord God will raise up a mighty nation among the Gentiles, yea, even upon the face of this land; and by them shall our seed be scattered.
    8 And after our seed is scattered the Lord God will proceed to do a marvelous work among the Gentiles, which shall be of great worth unto our seed; wherefore, it is likened unto their being nourished by the Gentiles and being carried in their arms and upon their shoulders.
    9 And it shall also be of worth unto the Gentiles; and not only unto the Gentiles but unto all the house of Israel, unto the making known of the covenants of the Father of heaven unto Abraham, saying: In thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.
    10 And I would, my brethren, that ye should know that all the kindreds of the earth cannot be blessed unless he shall make bare his arm in the eyes of the nations.
    11 Wherefore, the Lord God will proceed to make bare his arm in the eyes of all the nations, in bringing about his covenants and his gospel unto those who are of the house of Israel.
    12 Wherefore, he will bring them again out of captivity, and they shall be gathered together to the lands of their inheritance; and they shall be brought out of obscurity and out of darkness; and they shall know that the Lord is their Savior and their Redeemer, the Mighty One of Israel.
    • • •
    14 And every nation which shall war against thee, O house of Israel, shall be turned one against another, and they shall fall into the pit which they digged to ensnare the people of the Lord. And all that fight against Zion shall be destroyed, and that great whore, who hath perverted the right ways of the Lord, yea, that great and abominable church, shall tumble to the dust and great shall be the fall of it.

    Note that there are two times of scattering referred to in this chapter: the original dispersion from the middle East thousands of years ago, and the more recent scattering by the Europeans that have acted like Gentiles in the last 500 years.

    It seems to me that the lands of inheritance for gathering referred to in verse 12 are the precious lands that they were scattered to from the middle East, and then scattered from by the Europeans. This is consistent with our understanding that the American continent is the place of gathering for Lehi’s descendants, and McConkie’s statement about places of gathering in general as quoted in the Gospel Principles Manual:

    Elder Bruce R. McConkie said:

    “Every stake on earth is the gathering place for the lost sheep of Israel who live in its area.

    “The gathering place for Peruvians is in the stakes of Zion in Peru, or in the places which soon will become stakes. The gathering place for Chileans is in Chile; for Bolivians it is in Bolivia; for Koreans it is in Korea; and so it goes through all the length and breadth of the earth. Scattered Israel in every nation is called to gather to the fold of Christ, to the stakes of Zion, as such are established in their nations”
    (“Come: Let Israel Build Zion,” Ensign, May 1977, p. 118).

    In paticular, the place of gathering for the Palestinians is Palestine. If we want to get technical, the Jews that have broken the covenant have no right to gather there until they renew that covenant through baptism under the hands of an authorized administrator. For now they are acting the Gentile role of scattering the Palestinians from their precious lands, just as Europeans acting as Gentiles scattered the indigenous South Africans from their precious lands, etc.

    The Israeli claims to the land of Palestine by appeal to scripture do not hold any water. Enthusiastic LDS who support the Israeli position are jumping the gun through enthusiastic zeal coupled with extremely superficial knowledge. [Read Nibley’s “Zeal w/o Knowledge.”]

    If anybody finds this explanation plausible and valuable, I would like to know. I can fill in many more details for the interested.

  9. Joseph says:

    I do find your explanation to be one that accords with what I have read in the scriptures. Of course it will be difficult to know everything until the Lord reveals it or it happens, whichever comes first, or if they both happen at the same time. But I did enjoy reading your thoughts. Your use of 2 Ne 30:2 is certainly my favorite explanation of who the covenant people are, along with Mathew 3:9: “God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.” And I do remember Nibley talking about how Abraham lived during a massive depopulation from war, famine, and drought, so just having any children makes him a descendant of nearly everyone alive today. Interesting thoughts.

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s

Enter your email address to follow this blog and receive notifications of new posts by email.

Join 260 other followers

Categories

Archives

%d bloggers like this: