Clue #1 that tells us we are not all about freedom and democracy.


May 11, 2009 by theradicalmormon

A subtle piece of evidence that you are not pursuing a war in a foreign country for the democratization and freedom of that country’s people:  You refuse to aquiesce to demands from that country’s leader when he asks you to stop airstrikes in his country that are killing his electorate and their kids.

The United States said on Sunday it would not halt air strikes in Afghanistan as demanded by President Hamid Karzai after civilian deaths, and it denied using burning phosphorus in the attacks.

9 thoughts on “Clue #1 that tells us we are not all about freedom and democracy.

  1. Ron Madson says:

    Obama’s pastor was right—“G-damn america”–I only wish Obama had really listened to Jeremiah Wright and was more like him on this issue. We are the “hypocritical” nation that Isaiah condemned…Oh well, business as usual..

  2. Forest Simmons says:

    2 Ne. 28: 32
    “Wo be unto the Gentiles, saith the Lord God of Hosts! For notwithstanding I shall lengthen out mine arm unto them from day to day, they will deny me; nevertheless, I will be merciful unto them, saith the Lord God, if they will repent and come unto me; for mine arm is lengthened out all the day long, saith the Lord God of Hosts.”

    In other words, the Lord will be merciful to the few gentiles who repent.

  3. theradicalmormon says:

    Joseph Smith Translation of Matthew 21:

    51 Verily, I say unto you, I am the stone, and those wicked ones reject me.
    52 I am the head of the corner. These Jews shall fall upon me, and shall be broken.
    53 And the kingdom of God shall be taken from them, and shall be given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof; (meaning the Gentiles.)
    54 Wherefore, on whomsoever this stone shall fall, it shall grind him to powder.
    55 And when the Lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, he will destroy those miserable, wicked men, and will let again his vineyard unto other husbandmen, even in the last days, who shall render him the fruits in their seasons.
    56 And then understood they the parable which he spake unto them, that the Gentiles should be destroyed also, when the Lord should descend out of heaven to reign in his vineyard, which is the earth and the inhabitants thereof.

  4. Forest Simmons says:

    Here’s related passage:

    Luke 14: 16 Then said he unto him, A certain man made a great supper, and bade many:
    17 And sent his servant at supper time to say to them that were bidden, Come; for all things are now ready.
    18 And they all with one consent began to make excuse. The first said unto him, I have bought a piece of ground, and I must needs go and see it: I pray thee have me excused.
    19 And another said, I have bought five yoke of oxen, and I go to prove them: I pray thee have me excused.
    20 And another said, I have married a wife, and therefore I cannot come.
    21 So that servant came, and shewed his lord these things. Then the master of the house being angry said to his servant, Go out quickly into the streets and lanes of the city, and bring in hither the poor, and the maimed, and the halt, and the blind.
    22 And the servant said, Lord, it is done as thou hast commanded, and yet there is room.
    23 And the lord said unto the servant, Go out into the highways and hedges, and compel them to come in, that my house may be filled.
    24 For I say unto you, That none of those men which were bidden shall taste of my supper.

    Talmage tells us that those originally invited were the Jews, while the blind, poor, lame, etc. were the gentiles.

    But “those who were first shall be last, and those who were last shall be first.”

    So if we would apply this metaphor to our day, we must “liken” the American gringos (who have had the New Testament for centuries, and have been highly favored above all other nations, etc.) to the the original invitees, while the poor, lame, etc. are the scattered remnants of Jacob, more commonly known as the third world, i.e. the people represented by the coat of many colors. These are the meek who shall inherit the earth.

  5. theradicalmormon says:

    Yes, in the Church and as Gentiles we are way to comfortable or at ease in Zion. This scripture always gets me scared and should get all good church members scared:

    D&C 112:

    24 Behold, vengeance cometh speedily upon the inhabitants of the earth, a day of wrath, a day of burning, a day of desolation, of weeping, of mourning, and of lamentation; and as a whirlwind it shall come upon all the face of the earth, saith the Lord.
    25 And upon my house shall it begin, and from my house shall it go forth, saith the Lord;
    26 First among those among you, saith the Lord, who have professed to know my name and have not known me, and have blasphemed against me in the midst of my house, saith the Lord.

  6. Grégoire says:

    So if we would apply this metaphor to our day, we must “liken” the American gringos (who have had the New Testament for centuries, and have been highly favored above all other nations, etc.) to the the original invitees, while the poor, lame, etc. are the scattered remnants of Jacob, more commonly known as the third world, i.e. the people represented by the coat of many colors. These are the meek who shall inherit the earth.

    Throughout my life I have been consistently helped out, fed, clothed, and sheltered (in my childhood I mean this literally) by poor working-class Jews, Southern Whites, gays and lesbians, and other outcastes who often barely had enough for themselves. I’m sure I wouldn’t be alive today had it not been for *the salt of the earth*.

    I briefly met a guy once in L.A. named Hassan Hathout, after a lecture I sat in on. He had this theory that the world should be restructured into only two groups, those with a loving heart and those without one. Those without one, he contended, could be treated rather than punished. (I think he was a psychiatrist/neurologist). As I get older I come to appreciate ideas like that; and while Dr. Hathout was a Muslim, I think this attitude is compatible with the teachings of Jesus also.

    With that in mind, and with respect to the fire and brimstone scriptures, I tend to see the people on the ground in this war as more victims than criminals. Imagine the nightmares that will plague the pilots who are dropping those munitions today, for the rest of their lives. It’s a tragedy, all the way ’round.

  7. Forest Simmons says:

    Grégoire, I love stories where some nobody-with-heart on a journey attracts more and more misfits until they become a force to reckon with, because their abnormalities turn into advantages when mixed together in a spontaneous harmony of caring for each other.

    You said, “…He had this theory that the world should be restructured into only two groups, those with a loving heart and those without one. Those without one, he contended, could be treated rather than punished.”

    An angel told Nephi that there are two churches only. In other words, there are many denominations, but the two churches that your friend described cross all denominational lines. In Matthew 25, the two churches are referred to as the Sheep and the Goats.

    RadicalMormon, I’m afraid that I agree with you; that scripture (section 112) hits the nail on the head. No wonder President Kimball said, “I am appalled and frightened …”

    Equally frightening is Morm. 8: 41. Behold, the sword of vengeance hangeth over you; and the time soon cometh that he avengeth the blood of the saints upon you, for he will not suffer their cries any longer.

    Here “saints” means innocent women, children, etc. in poverty stricken and war torn zones, etc.

    The preceding verses make it clear that Moroni is talking to us, the prosperous Americans.

    [How many English speaking Mormons know that when the Book of Mormon prophets say “Gentiles,” they mean (almost exclusively) us?]

    There is safety in Zion, but there is no safety for us as an North American sector of the church unless we get serious about establishing Zion.

    D&C 84: 57 And they shall remain under this condemnation until they repent and remember the new covenant, even the Book of Mormon and the former commandments which I have given them, not only to say, but to do according to that which I have written—

    Chief among the “former commandments” is the Law of Consecration introduced in section 42 as the law of the church, along with the ten commandments.

    The Book of Mormon makes abundantly clear that that’s the way He wants us to live.

    President Hinckley was very concerned about retention of new members. If the missionaries put more emphasis on the purpose of getting together to build up Zion, a real Zion society, an oasis of peace and love (in contrast to surrounding Babylon), then new members wouldn’t just think, “OK, now that I have been baptized and confirmed by the proper authority, I’m all set, as long as I continue to repent of my sins to the end of my life.”

    The new member lessons that stress temple work and other church service are pretty much an after thought. No mention of Zion there.

    I think during the period of explosive growth in the 19th century, European converts had the idea that they were gathering to Zion, a real place, a real way of living away from Babylon. How can we get that idea back? Are we serious about building up the New Jerusalem wherein the Lord can dwell with his people?

    This is not the thrust of the “Preach My Gospel,” missionary guide, which is not substantially different in doctrinal emphasis from the six or seven discussions that we used when I was a full-time missionary.

    At the end of my full time mission I read a history of the pioneer era of the church, and I thought, “No wonder those early missionaries brought whole congregations into the church. The converts had hope of establishing Zion so that their kids could grow up in farming communities in peace and mutual prosperity, in contrast to the mines, textile mills, etc. of Europe.”

    “And great shall be the peace of thy children.”

    I wonder, should we wait for further warnings to flee from the wrath to come?

    Or should we consider that we have been warned enough, and get out while the getting is good?

    When Jerusalem was ripening for destruction in 600 BC, Lehi fled and avoided the destruction, but Jeremiah sacrificed his chances of escaping because he had a different mission to perform. Which should we do?

  8. Forest,
    Even more shocking, I think that the end of Mormon 8 is referring specifically to Gentile members of the Church since verse 38 asks: “why have ye polluted the holy church of God?” Who can pollute the holy church of God except those who are in the holy church of God?
    Regarding our curse that you’ve outlined in D&C 84, the verses preceeding the condemnation speak heavily of paying strict heed to every word that proceeds forth from the mouth of God. This is then explained by the Lord as the Spirit of Christ, which brings us to the Father. It is this same Spirit that is referred to in D&C 45:57 as the oil which was in the lamps of the wise virgins in the parable, that separated the wise and foolish virgins (both groups being inside the Church).
    He then goes on from verse 61 (in section 84) on to the end of the Section, telling us how he will forgive us of our sins and it has a whole lot to do with missionary work. He then goes on to explain why this missionary work is so important at the end of the section:

    …reproving the world in righteousness of all their unrighteous and ungodly deeds, setting forth clearly and understandingly the desolation of abomination in the last days.
    118 For, with you saith the Lord Almighty, I will rend their kingdoms; I will not only shake the earth, but the starry heavens shall tremble.
    119 For I, the Lord, have put forth my hand to exert the powers of heaven; ye cannot see it now, yet a little while and ye shall see it, and know that I am, and that I will come and reign with my people.

    You are right Forest, it is the time to come in which the Lord will come to reign on the earth, that we are to look forward to and its accompanying utopia or Zion. We should not settle for less than this.

    Also, Section 84 speaks of the Oath and Covenant of the Preisthood and becoming sons of Moses and Aaron and the Seed of Abraham via our magnifying our calling and entering into the rest of the Lord, which is his Glory, and achieving that which Moses’s people didn’t live up to and which Joseph Smith’s people haven’t fully lived up to. To receive the blessings that Adam’s people received at Adam Ondi Ahman, and that of the people of Enoch and that of the people of Melchizedek. Yup, I think this is what we should be aiming for.

  9. Forest Simmons says:

    I agree. The warnings are especially to us LDS Gentiles; after all, we are practically the only Gentiles in possession of the Book.

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