Cynthia McKinney Kidnapped By Israeli Navy

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June 30, 2009 by Gsmith

concrete-1

Exclusive to the readers of the Mormon Worker are photos sent from Comrade McKinney to Brother Grégoire, showing the dangerous and illegal contents of the Free Gaza vessel. You saw it here first.

concrete-2

This is what we Anglophones call Portland Cement. It is neither a weapon, an explosive nor an intoxicant. Mixed with local sand, gravel and water, it forms concrete, and is useful in repairing buildings and bridges that have been destroyed wholesale by the Israeli Defense Forces during their illegal occupation and bombardment of Palestine.

concrete-3

I released these a couple of days ago in various other ways. I found the current situation provocative enough to post here. If you want more frequent updates from Tehran and/or the Free Gaza Sealift (besieged now), you can get with me privately, plug into me on facebook, and go from there. It’ll be interesting to see how this all plays out.

From Haaretz:

One of the international activists who sought to sail to Gaza on Tuesday lamented the world’s “apathy” to the plight of the Hamas-ruled territory shortly before the Israel Navy seized control of the vessel.

“We didn’t come with guns and weapons, but with just humanitarian aid, in an attempt to break the siege of Gaza and to tell the apathetic world about what is happening in the Strip, especially after the last war,” said Huwaida Araf in an interview with the Nazareth-based radio station Al-Shams.

She added: “I was born in the United States to a family of immigrants from the [Arab Israeli] village of Ma’ilia, and still have relatives in Israel, and I’m sure that everyone supports my step.”
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The voyage’s organizers, the Free Gaza Movement, said the vessel, renamed the Spirit of Humanity, left the Cypriot port of Larnaca on Monday bound for Gaza with three tons of medical supplies.

The activists were attempting to break a blockade of Gaza, imposed by Israel after the Islamic group Hamas took over the territory in a bloody 2007 coup.

Early Tuesday, the navy surrounded the vessel, which was also carrying humanitarian aid, and told the activists to turn back because of security risks in the area and the blockade, according to the IDF.

But the boat later entered Gaza’s coastal waters, the IDF Spokespersons’ Office said in a statement, after which a naval force boarded it.

No shots were fired during the boarding of the boat, and the crew was to be handed over to the appropriate authorities, the IDF said.

In the statement, the IDF Spokespersons’ Unit added that it “would like to emphasize that any organization or country that wishes to transfer humanitarian aid to the Gaza Strip, can legally do so via the established crossings between Israel and the Gaza Strip with prior coordination.”

The army said humanitarian goods found on board the boat would be transferred to the Gaza Strip, subject to authorization.

The 20 passengers include former U.S. Representative Cynthia McKinney, Nobel Peace Prize laureate Mairead Corrigan Maguire and other activists from Britain, Ireland, Bahrain and Jamaica.

The ship was flying a Greek flag, but no Greek citizens were aboard. The Greek government issued a statement saying it sent a message to Israel demanding that it release the ship, crew and passengers.

Foreign Ministry spokesman Yigal Palmor said Israel was planning to
free the crew and passengers. ”

Nobody wants to keep them here,” he said. “They will be released as soon as they are checked.”

The Free Gaza Movement has organized five boat trips to Gaza since August
2008, defying a blockade imposed by Israel when the militant group Hamas
seized control of the territory from its Palestinian rivals in June 2007.

Two other attempts were stopped by Israeli warships during Israel’s three-week offensive against Hamas in the territory in December and January. Nobody on board was harmed.

Israel tightened a blockade on Gaza in 2007 after Hamas seized control of the territory, home to some 1.5 million people.

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24 thoughts on “Cynthia McKinney Kidnapped By Israeli Navy

  1. Grégoire says:

    As of right now there are protests at the Israeli Embassies in Washington (3514 Int’l Dr. NW) and Ottawa (50 O’Connor St.). Call the embassies now to support the release of these honorary Mormon Workers…

    USA 202 364 5500
    CAN 613 567 6450

    Or stop on by and let ’em know how you feel.

  2. theradicalmormon says:

    This is outrageous. Of course, the whole history of Israeli abuse of the Palestinian people is outrageous. I’ll put in a call.

  3. DALE GEORGE says:

    BOM says that when the jews begin to gather to the holy land they will begin to believe in Jesus Christ. Is there any evidence of this beginning to believe in Jesus Christ?

  4. theradicalmormon says:

    I think the Jews as a whole will not be a believing people until they see the marks in the Savior’s hands and ask him what happened. Am I wrong?

  5. Grégoire says:

    Dear Dale:

    You have to define things like “Jew” and “believe” and “Jesus Christ” here.

    I have a Hebrew name I got at age 24. I’ve chanted Kol Nidre on Yom Kippur. I know kaddish from kiddish, as the saying goes. People consider me a Hebrew, but I have never considered myself one. People might consider my kids Hebrews for a variety of other reasons, though they’ve been explicitly raised from birth to consider themselves atheists and they’ve never been to any religious services outside the odd funeral — with the exception of a Mormon Sacrament Meeting I took my daughter to recently where she was treated quite badly.

    So what is a Jew? I’ve asked that question of dozens of people (most of whom describe themselves with the word) and never had the same answer.

    What does “believe in Jesus Christ” mean? Studying history, I became convinced at a rather early age that no such person ever existed in human form. Christianity seems to have been invented by a rabbi named Saul. A sort of reformed Judaism mixed with Greco-Roman philosophy. I’m more of an Epicurean than a Neo-Platonist but I do like the literary character and I think many of his ideas, when they’re lived moderately (in an Epicurean sort of way – if that’s possible, it’s sort of a contradiction) would have a wonderful practical effect on human society. This is my form of “believing in Jesus Christ”.

    When I read the gospels I’m reading symbolic literature, and the protagonist seems much more like an Abbie Hoffman type, or perhaps a George Hayduke type. He’s more a merry prankster, trickster, guerrilla theatre kind of dude. The aforementioned Saul was kind of a scold and a lot of the messages he sends out make my skin crawl a bit, but I love Jesus, in my own way.

    To give you the most direct answer I can, I don’t think that any Jew will begin to believe in Jesus Christ in the way that you want him to. If any Jew did, s/he’d cease to be a Jew and become a Christian. That’s using my definition of Jew and what I gather is your definition of “believe in Jesus”.

    Most of the people in power who make much ado about being “Christians” (George W Bush) and “Jews” (Joe Lieberman) support things in the real world which run contrary to the traditions they claim to embrace. I don’t see Saul of Tarsus or Hillel the Elder dropping fire on women or little kids in Baghdad or Gaza. I don’t think it’d happen and I don’t think the so-called Christians and Jews who support this crapola know that much about their own tradition if they’re supporting this sort of terror and bloodshed. Rather than trying to convert people from one label to another, I’d be much more interested in having people search more deeply into the wisdom of their texts and hopefully appreciate the underlying meaning already contained therein.

    • DALE GEORGE says:

      Kol Nidre? Interesting, the prayer asking for forgiveness before the crime is committed. Why is this idea so touching to jews and so revolting to gentiles?

      Defining words are important. As far as the word jew is concerned there are many different definitions.

      When Jesus said that the jews he was speaking to were guilty of all the righteous blood from the time of Abel to his present time, that would indicate that here that Cain was a jew and the father of the jews. This does not seem too shocking an idea since Jesus also said their father was the devil. He called them a race of devils.

      The first jew we know of in the bible is Judith, the wife of Esau. Take at look at the word Judith in the Strongs Concordance to the bible. It identifies Judith as a jew or yehuda. Judith was of the generation before Judah.

      Judah had several sons, one or two of which were so evil god killed them. Judah violated the race laws of god given to maintain the purity of blood commanded throughout the old testament by marrying a non-jew descendant of cain and the fallen angels(this woman was the mother of the sons mentioned above).

      Judah also had two pure blooded israelites through Terah from whom the kings of israel were descended.

      So the question I have is, are the jews that are presently gathered to the mid-east of the pure line or of the satanic line? Are they the abomination that maketh desolate mentioned by Daniel and Jesus?

      In the book of revelations it warns of the those who say they are jews but are not but are of the synagogue of satan.

      So………….if jesus logic holds (using his parables as the basis for reasoning), what does it mean that “by their fruits ye shall know them?”

      Jesus condemned the milktoast people of his time by pointing out that by the signs in the sky they could predict the weather, and yet by just as visible signs they could not or refused to tell the signs of the times.

      It seems clear to me that their fruits betray them.

      As far as believing in Jesus Christ is concerned, he said plainly that those who kept his law were his friends. If a person does not believe Jesus came in the flesh, he is anti-christ according to John. That excludes the jews.

      The Talmud is a terribly anti-jesus book, calling Jesus a bastard som of a roman soldier,named Panderas, making Mary a whore. Also saying Jesus boils in human excrement in hell, etc. Basically saying some terrible thinga about Jesus and christians. The fundamentalist jews believe every word of it.

      Jewish traditions are very dark, tending to make them enemies of all mankind.

      I tend to believe that the enemies Jesus had in his time are the same ones we would have to deal with today. When did his enemies ever change?

  6. Joseph says:

    I think Gregoire makes some very good points. I am not in total agreement. Most significantly, I do believe in Jesus Christ as a historical figure who was divine offspring in a physical way, but this is something we could go round and round about, and I don’t see it as central to this discussion.

    I do agree with asking the questions, though, of who are the “Jews” and what does believing in Christ in this context? I really have lost track of who I believe the Jews are, since Jewishness is a religion and a culture, more than it is a race so far as I can tell. Is that what the scriptural prophecies are referring to? I’m not so sure. In terms of physical descendants of the peoples prophesied about in the scriptures, they are all over, and many of them were displaced by the European incursion known as the state of Israel.

    And what about being converted to Christ? I do believe in Jesus Christ as a Savior, but this is a personal conviction, and I believe it always will be (and should be) for whatever individuals chose to accept such a belief. In terms of groups of people, I, like Gregoire, am more concerned with accepting the teachings of Christ (I am paraphrasing here, and hopefully not twisting words too much). It would seem to me that the relations the state of Israel currently has with its neighbors, this isn’t even close to happening!

  7. Joseph says:

    Oh, and radicalmormon, yes according to Doctrine and Covenants (I’m to lazy to look it up right now), the event you describe is when the Israelites in the Middle-East will recognize Jesus as the Messiah (again I’m paraphrasing, and hopefully not twisting words). It refers to a scripture in Micah which is rather confusing, but in Doctrine and Covenants it is more clear.

    But I still think Gregoire’s questions of who the “Jews” might be and what does it mean to believe in Christ are valuable.

  8. Forest Simmons says:

    In the stark archetypal language of last times prophecy, Babylon is synonymous with the wicked world or the Great and Abominable Church, not particularly related o the location of the ancient city called Babylon. When people gather out of Babylon, automatically they gather into Jerusalem, which just means the opposite of Babylon in this.context, and is also synonymous with Zion in this context (not particularly related to any specific location ancient or modern). “New Jerusalem” seems to be more specific to some location in the American hemisphere.

    [Chapter 20 of 3 Nephi fits much better with chapters 16 and 21 if you understand these usages. These chapters are the resurrected Lord’s definitive words on the subject.]

    It seems to me that Gileadi is right about the frequently quoted passage
    (Isa. 2: 3) “And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem.”

    This is an example of parallel repetition. Contrary to what most LDS scriptorians (including LeGrand Richards) have misunderstood, it seems that Isaiah is not saying that there will be two centers (one for the secular law and one for the word of the Lord). Rather he is emphasizing by parallel construction that the word of the Lord will be the law during the millenium. In this passage Jerusalem means nothing different from Zion. They both mean the kingdom of god on earth. “Thy kingdom come, thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven.” Are there two centers in heaven? One for the law and one for the word of the Lord?
    .
    The Nephite prophets used the designations “Jews” and “Remnants of Israel” somewhat interchangeably as did Joseph Smith, Jr.

    Various remnants of Israel are now gathering into the fold (i.e. the stakes of Zion) as they accept the restored gospel. It is a statistical certainty that every living being has Jacob, son of Isaac, son of Abraham as an ancestor, whether he/she knows it or not. But some (including many modern ethnic Jews) are acting the role of modern European scatterers and oppressors of the remnants that mixed in with the heathen anciently. So these Jews are playing the same role as the European Ephraimites that Nephi, Mormon, Moroni, the Resurrected Lord, and Joseph Smith, Jr. called Gentiles, i.e. the people that would first take the Bible, and then The Book of Mormon to the rest of the world, thus being nursing mothers and foster fathers to the scattered remnants of Israel. However, we Ephraimites have been a mixed blessing, we have also been the main modern scatterers of the remnants of Israel for the last five centuries. For a good overview this scattering, read Jared Diamond’s “Guns, Germs, and Steel.” If we don’t repent from that role soon, we are cruising for a bruising. I don’t see any signs of repentance.

    Of all the branches of the House of Israel the ethnic Jews were historically the first to reject the gospel and the last to be scattered physically. So in the reversal of first and last that Paul, Jesus, Nephi, etc. talk about in this context, they will be the last to accept the restored gospel and the first to be gathered physically.

    • DALE GEORGE says:

      What is an ethnic jew? Are you aware of the askenazi “jews” who form the bulk of modern jewry? They are of turko-edomite descent. They were converted to judiasm in the eight century and have little or no semitic blood. They are more akin to the lineage of Herod.

      It seems strange to me that a people of non-israelite lineage would claim ownership of property in the mid-east by virtue of Abraham when they are not descendants of Abraham.

      The palestinians have more blood of abraham than the jews.

      I believe we have a problem with identifying who the true descendants of judah are today.

  9. Grégoire says:

    Sorry to interrupt your Canada Day festivities but I just got an earlier message. Thanks so much to TRM and others who have made calls, honked horns and otherwise voiced your displeasure. Here’s the update I just got.

    There was a protest today at the Israeli mission to the UN in New York City. Rumor has it that 1000 protestors showed up and picketed from mid-afternoon to sundown.

    Cynthia McKinney was able to get a call out to a colleague, she sends a message that she is fine, keep calling, faxing and emailing. Keep protesting, too! She is being held at the Ramle Prison in Israel…she has seen an attorney today provided by Free Gaza. She had no information on any of the 21 being released. Mairead Maguire is possibly being held or detained somewhere else. Demand that Israel return the ship along with the DANGEROUS CARGO–CRAYONS! FREE the FREE GAZA 21!

  10. Joseph says:

    This is yet another really crazy story. Israel is really out of control.

    I don’t mean to go back to the previous discussion, but I do have to correct myself. The Micah scripture I referenced earlier was not Micah, but Zechariah.

    Anyway, hopefully there will be enough pressure put on Israel to let this ship go. This is proof that Israel acts way beyond of the bounds of just self-protection.

  11. theradicalmormon says:

    When I called the number above, the Israeli embassy gave me such a runaround. It was an entirely unsatisfying phone call. It is really outrageous that these sorts of incidents occur in the 21st century. See this article:

    http://www.reuters.com/article/featuredCrisis/idUSL2879277

  12. Grégoire says:

    Dear Dale:

    Interesting questions. Please see inside text:

    Kol Nidre? Interesting, the prayer asking for forgiveness before the crime is committed. Why is this idea so touching to jews and so revolting to gentiles?

    You’re speaking for yourself alone. The acknowledgment that no matter what you do in the next year you’ll end up falling short of the ideal propounded by your god is a simple principle of self awareness. Most healthy people realize we haven’t achieved any practical measure of perfection yet. In fact, I’m absolutely confident that within the span of the next week I’ll offend people, by things done and left undone. In realizing this it can propel me to become a bit more careful about how I treat these others.

    http://revnost.blogspot.com/2008/10/blog-post.html

    The Talmud is a terribly anti-jesus book, calling Jesus a bastard som of a roman soldier,named Panderas, making Mary a whore. Also saying Jesus boils in human excrement in hell, etc. Basically saying some terrible thinga about Jesus and christians. The fundamentalist jews believe every word of it.

    Really? In the New Testament I find Jews described as ‘vipers’, ‘sons of their father who is the devil’, ‘the synagogue of Satan’ and other such nonsense.

    History suggests that Saul of Tarsus was a Rabbi who reinterpreted Judaism and began flock stealing from all the local Jewish communities throughout the Roman Empire. The original Jews and the new ‘Jesus movement’ Jews were competitors for people and tithes. As such both camps tended to demonize the other. The Jesus Movement got the upper hand when they convinced a Roman Emperor named Constantine the Great to convert and make their religion the state religion.

    The most profound difference I found between Jews and Christians was the honesty of the Hebrews in regard to the Talmud you clearly don’t know anything about. When I asked about the things you cite, the rebbe was pretty open about the fact that the authors were simply men trying to interpret religious texts. Christians take the ‘synagogue of Satan’ nonsense as the unalterable word of God himself. Jews take the ‘bastard son of Mary’ citation as the ravings of people who were angry or possibly mentally ill, and put them into a more realistic context.

    The Talmud is a huge body of work, as large as the larger encyclopaedias, and few people can get through it all. Much of it is superstitious stone-age nonsense, some is hateful bigotry, and hidden in the text is a lot of good advice too.

    Jewish traditions are very dark, tending to make them enemies of all mankind.

    I could tell you some of the traditions I learned growing up as a Mormon kid, and any outsider would find them pretty shocking too. Meet my cousin, Ervil:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ervil_LeBaron

    Judaism and Mormonism can both be criticized. I’ve criticized both, but when I do so I’m realistic. I don’t judge every Mormon by the lowest common denominator or by whatever kook literature I find on internet hate sites. I can find such people now who think that Mormons did human sacrifices of First Nations people in the Salt Lake Temple. This blood libel idiocy is suitable only for the weak-minded, and I suggest you pass it by for more balanced attempts at analysis.

    Regards…

    • DALE GEORGE says:

      I’ll pass on the Kol Nidre. It’s been awhile since I read the words. Possibly it can be interpreted by the intend of the person giving it. What I read supports my view of it.

      So you admit that the Talmud is anti-jesus and anti-christian then. The new testament is definitely anti-jew.

      Paul, I would not defend him.

      I would not defend mormonism. I see that there are alot of distortions in mormon doctrine, teachings, history that tends to the fanatical. Maybe it is the fact that mormonism is not based on any facts, but faith and belief only; no tangible grounding principle there. Those who believe or take the faithful path tend to narrow their focus as in a trance and with the suggestion as found in the book of mormon, overtime, can receive personal “revelations” that can lead to extreme violence. Krakowers (spelling) BANNER OVER ZION documents this.

      Looking deeply into udiasm or mormonism is freeing, the truth shall set you free. An accurate picture of jews and mormons is important. The slow progress of humanity must be the discomfort that obvious truths invoke in the semi-conscious thinker.

      The internet is a smorgasboard of ideas for kooks and thinkers alike. Truths are often shrouded in kookiness.

  13. Grégoire says:

    What is an ethnic jew? Are you aware of the askenazi “jews” who form the bulk of modern jewry? They are of turko-edomite descent. They were converted to judiasm in the eight century and have little or no semitic blood. They are more akin to the lineage of Herod.

    There is no such thing as “semitic [sic] blood”, nor can you find any reputable peer-reviewed journal articles citing such things.

    Jews from Europe originated in many different places. Jews in Holland, Northern Germany and the Nordic countries tend to be descended from converts who wanted to escape centuries of Catholic/Protestant violence. Jews from Southern Germany and Poland tend to be descendants of people who migrated from the East. In parts of North Africa there are the Sephardim, originally Germanic types from Spain and Morocco who were driven out in the Reconquista of 1492.

    Judaism is simply a religion. I can go to temple this weekend and see African looking “Whoopi Goldberg” type Hebrews, and Altaic looking “Elia Kazan” type Hebrews, and Nordic looking “Alicia Silverstone” type Hebrews. There are a lot of Chinese Jews in my own area also. Mormons tend to be much more ethnically homogeneous than Jews do, due to our long history of anti-Black sentiment and our inbreeding in Utah/Arizona/Alberta/Chihuaua.

  14. DALE GEORGE says:

    Now that is a strange idea, that there are not any semites. So then there is no anti-semitism.

    What is this I have heard about marriage in Israel, that a Cohen cannot marry another jew unless the lineage of the spouse is pure for many generation on both spousal lines?

    If race is important to the rulers of the state of israel, jusdiasm cannot be simply a religion.

    I don’t know what you mean about mormons having an anti-black sentiment although some church families might be inbred. Its a natural tendency for all forms of life to segregate themselves according to those other units that are closest to themselves genetically.

    Although there are alot of jews who have mixed genetically with various races, I understand that there is alot of racial prejudice among the various groups.

  15. Grégoire says:

    Dear Dale:

    “Semitic” is a term used by philologists to classify a language subfamily. It’s not a biological term.

    Judaism is not a ‘race’. (LOL!) You can convert to Judaism in 48 hours, which is much more rapidly than the Catholics will convert you. Doesn’t matter what race you are, as long as you’re willing to pay lip service to some superstitious ideas and learn a few Hebrew words you’ll be a Jew after your conversion.

    If you’re interested in anti-Black sentiment among our people I could refer you to Kimball’s 1978 revelation. Pretty shameful to note that even Joseph Smith Jr’s Afro-Desereter friend Elijah Abel was deprecated by Brigham Young and several generations of his descendants were discriminated against in Utah, after he crossed the plains and helped found our own state.

    You’ve disseminated a lot of misinformation here which I’ve tried to correct. If you’re interested in Talmud you can read it openly (as I did) in your local community with other students. Once you see it for yourself, I’m sure it will appear a lot less sinister and a lot less interesting also. It was excellent literary training for me, but as with any religious text, it gave me very little useful information about the real world.

    In any event, I appreciate your comments and I’ll leave it here unless you’ve got something relevant to the free gaza boat lift, Cynthia McKinney, or the others who are now languishing in Israeli jails (which include at least four Jews and two non-Jewish Israeli citizens, by my count).

    Regards…

  16. DALE GEORGE says:

    Interesting. The first online dictionary I consulted shows the word semitic as: 1.Of or relating to the Semites or their languages or cultures. So semite is first a people. I can’t imagine a language developing not being an outgrowth of a people.

    Your explanation of judiasm and jews is not complete and certainly not all jews and especially some fundamentalist jews would not agree an the conversion isssue. It’s not as simple as you make it seem. In the so called jewish world, not all jews are considered equal by the jews themselves.

    I have read many portions of the Talmud much of which is boring and hard to understand. Some sections are very clear and disgusting. That certainly is not misinformation. Personally I would never seek the direction and teaching of a minister or rabbi to tell me what a scripture means. My experience is that they know very little and tend to mislead people. I do not want to interpret something through someone elses eyes.

    From my understanding of the Talmud, the cruelties committed by the jews in palestine, are a direct result of fundamental teachings of the some rabbis.

    SEE:
    http://antiisgood.wordpress.com/2008/03/20/rabbi-lior-says-it%E2%80%99s-ok-to-kill-civilians-and-other-rabbis-are-silent/

    DON’T YOU FIND THIS REVOLTING?

  17. American Indian Warrior says:

    This is what our world has turned into.
    Criticize a Jew and your anti-semitic.. Wait the jews in Israel today are not semites, they are Khazar whore dogs, parading as a semite. Release Miss McKinney or you will know the wrath of a people.

  18. American Indian Warrior says:

    Dale George
    I am a damn old farm boy from the south .. but BUT I know when a hammer hits a nail dead on the head. You got my Vote.. very good reasoning and very well posted .. my hat is off to you.. damn good job

  19. American Indian Warrior says:

    Dale George
    You can not reason with Grégoire.. there is an old saying but I know I will not get this right.. try to teach a pig to sing .. it will give you a headache and bother the pig.. something like that.. Grégoire will not step back and look at this from both sides. This is what they do to us.. actually Grégoire is very intelligent .. I am just a stupid farm boy Indian.. but if you 2 would combine your brains .. now we are talking

  20. Grégoire says:

    Dear Fellas,

    Amusing to note that I’m now being painted as a crypto-Jew or Jewish sympathizer. Just a few weeks ago I was called an anti-Semite by someone else when I pointed out a few flaws in the reasoning of the Zionists.

    In any event: Which translation of Talmud are you guys reading? You guys say you read this stuff yourselves. Give me the corpus, volume and publication date. I have access to a couple of different copies now. I’ve seen crapola pumped out ad nauseum by the neo-nazi types for years but they never reference anything in detail. I trust you two are smarter than those chuckleheads.

    The first online dictionary I consulted shows the word semitic as…

    Sorry, you were rambling earlier about ‘semitic blood’ (LOL!). Unless you can find a modern dictionary reference for that you’re not going to score any points.

    Furthermore, saying ‘all Jews are’ is sorta like saying ‘all American Indians are’. It’s not like they’re all united in their opinions about anything. In all my years I’ve only known one Jew to speak about the things you guys accuse them of (Jesus was son of a Roman soldier, etc.) and after a five minute conversation I concluded that she was probably mentally ill. The reality is that Jesus never existed in the historical record, so I don’t pay too much attention to someone who wants to author phony history on the fly about him.

    I find Judaism to be a silly collection of superstitions which originated in the stone age and which humankind will eventually shrug off, but I don’t find the whole of the religion to be any more or less ridiculous than what Protestants, Catholics, Muslims or Mormons believe. Most Jews are Jews simply by birth, in the same way that I’m a Mormon. Personally, I’m glad that most people don’t blame me for the Multi-Level Marketing financial scams and organized child-abuse rings which have been associated with LDS members in the media of late. I’m inclined to show the Hebrews the same courtesy.

    Thanks for the comments, and let’s remember Sister McKinney… LOL!

  21. Adrienne says:

    Dear Grégoire and DALE GEORGE:

    You’ve both made many valid points and I certainly enjoyed reading your posts. I agree (with American Indian Warrior) that you’d be better off by combining your thoughts.

    It’s funny cause I was just talking to my mom about the word “Semitic”, what it literally means and what it has come to mean. For example, we linguists use the term to refer to a language family that is not exclusive to Hebrew (i.e. a language and/or ethnolinguistic title that is overwhelmingly associated with Judaism and Jewishness). In reality, however, Amharic-, Tigre-, and Arabic- speaking groups are Semites as well. Thus, that would include Arabs, Eritreans, Ethiopians, and Tigreans, to name a few overlook populations.

    Also, as far as so-called races, cultures, and peoples are concerned, they’re all man-made fabrications (i.e. social constructs). So just like Grégoire stated, there wouldn’t be any biological basis or phenotypical correlate to the Semite group–let alone any other taxonomic classification.

    I also found it interesting, Grégoire and DALE GEORGE, that you deny the existence of anti-black sentiments in the Jewish and Mormon groups. I know, for example, that a number of (Black) Hebrew groups have been disqualified from using the Law of Return simply on the ridiculous assumption that people of certain hues couldn’t be of the same descent as alleged “real Jews”. Latter Day Saints, on the other hand, forbade a number of Black men from holding the LDS Priesthood on the basis of their darker skin and because of several LDS doctrines. Before you continue denying the inequitable history of LDS, check out the ‘Doctrines of Salvation’ and the ‘Mormon Doctrine’, to name a few. Brigham Young is among the many responsible for these teachings.

    I also wanted to disagree with the ridiculous notion that “it’s a natural tendency for all forms of life to segregate themselves according to those other units that are closest to themselves genetically” (see DALE GEORGE). Genetically, biologically, WHATEVER!! It’s completely unnatural. Really, how is it more natural or acceptable for a brunette and a blonde to reproduce, than for a darker-skinned person and a lighter-skinned person to do so?! Both pairs involve genetically divergent people, right?

    Ultimately, we’re all the same species, just different in a few minor ways. The lines that separate us, the races and other classifications, were created to do just that: to classify us, differentiate us, and separate us. They’re not natural. They’re naturalized.

    Anyway, I just HAD to put that out there. As long as we’re calling, dropping by, or writing the embassy and what not, I think it’s ok to deviate a little bit from the original subject…

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