Fight Racism: Oppose the American Renaissance Conference

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January 25, 2010 by Tariq Khan

Stand against racism; tell the Westin Hotel to say no to the American Renaissance Conference:
I thought this might be interesting to anyone out there interested in fighting against racism. February 19-21, the Dulles Airport Westin Hotel in Herndon, VA will be hosting some of the leading white supremacist “intellectuals” from around the world for the 9th American Renaissance Conference. American Renaissance is a racist website/newsletter edited by Reston, VA resident and infamous white supremacist, Jared Taylor. Every two years, Taylor organizes this conference which brings together many of the country’s most active racists, such as anti-immigration fanatics, neo-nazis, and ex-Klansmen to listen to talks given by leading white supremacists. For example, David Duke, former grand master of the KKK, has been involved in past American Renaissance Conferences. People connected to the neo-Nazi website stormfront.org (which has as a motto “white pride worldwide”) have been faithful supporters of the AR conference over the years. American Renaissance argues that racial integration and respect for racial and ethnic diversity are the main reasons for the country’s problems and that the solution is the “separation of the races” and a ban on non-white immigration. Jared Taylor uses long-debunked pseudo-science to claim that black people are genetically pre-disposed to have lower IQs than white people and that black people are naturally prone to violence and crime. 
American Renaissance is the new face of the white supremacist movement. When most people think of white power groups, the image of drunken, “trashy rednecks” who can barely produce coherent sentences, or idiotic, violent skinheads comes to mind. American Renaissance is trying to change all that in an attempt to bring white supremacist ideas into respectable, mainstream society. For example, it is a rule that all males who attend the conference (and it is almost all males who attend; not many women ever show up), must wear a jacket and tie. This, presumably is to hide all of the smelly confederate flag t-shirts and swastika tattoos that conference attendees, like the Keystone State Skinheads, would have showing otherwise. Also, they never use words like “racism”, or “white supremacy” to describe themselves. Hilariously, Jared Taylor refers to himself as a “race relations expert”. He also calls himself a “race realist”. The term “race realist” is just code for “white supremacist”. They also never publicly use terms like “nigger”. Instead, they use academic language to argue ideas that are just as racist as the word “nigger” is.
In recent years, anti-racist activists have worked to expose this new “jacket and tie” racism for what it is. As a result of their work, many hotels in the area will not agree to host the conference. Four years ago, the Dulles Hyatt Hotel hosted the conference, but refused to ever host it again after anti-racism activists told the media and guests in the hotel about the conference. Two years ago the Dulles Crowne Plaza Hotel hosted the conference, and they too, have decided to never host it again when they realized that having their brand associated with white power is bad for business. Anti-racists have told other hotels in the area the truth about what American Renaissance is, and it has become increasingly difficult for these white supremacists to find a hotel to host them. As a result, American Renaissance used a different name to deceive the Dulles Westin Hotel into hosting them. They used the name New Century Foundation to get the Westin to host this year’s conference.
I encourage anti-racists to call or email the Westin to let them know what the New Century Foundation Conference really is and to encourage hotel management to stand up for racial equality by refusing to host white supremacist gatherings. You can call them at 703-793-3366, or email them at info@westindulles.com.
Note that I am not arguing for anyone’s free speech rights to be violated. I’m not calling for any laws to force these trashy racists to keep quiet. I’m not calling for any laws to force the hotel to refuse to host racist conferences. I believe in free speech. White supremacists have the right to engage in whatever kind of stupid, racist speech they want to. The Westin Hotel has a right to host whoever they want to host. The Westin Hotel also has the right to refuse to host white supremacists and to stand up for racial equality instead. Anti-racists have the right to let the Westin know what we think of them hosting a racist conference, and we have the right to expose the American Renaissance Conference by calling the hotel and by letting the public know about it. We have the right to refuse to give our business to hotels that host white supremacists and to encourage others not to stay at such hotels. There is a saying, “the cure for hate-speech is not to limit free speech, but rather, the cure for hate speech is more speech.” Let’s engage in “more speech” by calling the hotel and encouraging them to cancel the American Renaissance Conference.
Dulles Westin Hotel: 703-793-3366 or email info@westindulles.com

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224 thoughts on “Fight Racism: Oppose the American Renaissance Conference

  1. Molly says:

    Interesting.

    I agree with all but one of your comments: “This, presumably is to hide all of the smelly confederate flag t-shirts.”

    Since we southerners do love our Confederate flags…and for many, the display of them is not racist. For instance the Sons of Confederate Veterans, http://www.scv.org/, re enact battles of the War and promotes genealogical endeavors. They have provided for many of us links to our families that we might not otherwise have.

    Maybe some who bear the T-Shirts of this Flag are smelly, but for us in the South, this flag represents a large part of our history.

  2. Tariq says:

    I know plenty of southerners who don’t love the racist confederate flag. What do you think that flag represents to black southerners? The Sons of Confederate Veterans claim that the “preservation of liberty and freedom was the motivating factor” in the South’s decision to fight what they call the “second american revolution”. Those confederates sure didn’t care a heck of alot about the liberty and freedom of the black people they enslaved. They loved enslaving black people so much that they decided to commit sedition by violently and murderously rising up against the United States government for the heinous crime of taking away their “right” to own black people. It’s impossible to feel pride in the confederate flag and southern heritage (and all that jazz) without completely ignoring the legacy of slavery. But just because the confederates were a bunch of racist scumbags, that doesn’t mean that their descendents have to be racist scumbags. We are not our ancestors. We are our own people. Someone with a really awesome grandfather might be a jerk. Someone with a jerky grandfather might be really awesome. We are not defined by our ancestors. So their is no reason to feel a need to try to glorify people who took up arms in defense of the institution of slavery. To say that confederates were fighting for liberty or “state’s rights” is to completely ignore the fact that black people are human too. So, the confederate flag, or, I should say, the smelly confederate flag, is a symbol of racism, and a very brutal, cruel form of racism too. Lastly, I want to add, it is possible to promote geneological endeavors without glorifying that stupid flag.

    • NO…THIS is a symbol or brutality and racism…….

      http://www.amren.com/features/rap_lyrics/index.html

      THIS is why alot of Whites dont like to be around you black folk….all blacks, not all, but most of them, hate Whites…and we’re catching on now…..

      I like how you continually use ‘racist scumbag’….but you fail to understand exactly what ‘racism’ and ‘racist’ is…..

      blacks ARE the racists..and the Whites that follow you all are the racists as well…They seem to think in their mind that if they were to elevate a ‘poor, ppor oppressed minority’ to a certain level at the detriment of one of their own is ‘Progress’. ‘Enlightened’, ‘Fair’…

      Whites will always kill eachother for you blacks…just as blacks are killing Whites for eachother…And a White that emulates and imitate you blacks are FAR WORSE than the blacks themselves…..

      They are the TRUE enemies of MY People….

      Whites are finally realizing, after hoisting this clown to the presidential seat because theyre attempting to atone themselves for nothing they had to do with, that the ONLY MEANS of fairness to blacks is that Whites must give up power to you and your like….

      Alot already have….they have no dignity..they have no identity…so they will follow you blacks to the pit of Hell without ever knowing what happened to them…….because they are fools…weak and timid beings…abject-conformists….the worst of the worse…

      And blacks play on the stupid and gullible Whites…they manipulate the minds of the Whites with this ‘all new’ cultured status…

      black culture is ‘new’ to this country, because the restraints have been lifted…and it has done nothing but infect our culture with crime, poverty and has left us broke…

      The Whites back then were right…you and your race IS sub-cultured, IS inferior…for you all to have the need of ‘programs’ to elevate you all to a level that is not earned or merited. You all have been ‘promoted’ without any achievement on your own….

      And its time for you people to be demoted….

    • Kodawolf says:

      Tariq,

      Why shouldn’t the same accusations you’ve given be leveled against the US Stars and Stripes for the period dating from the early republic through the mid-nineteenth century?

      Every American colony entering the rebellion against England was a slave holding colony and afterward a slave holding state. The New England Colonies/States were also the importers of slaves from Africa and Caribbean. When the northern states began to abolish slavery within their respective borders, they generally applied emancipation of blacks for a specific age group, beginning at a certain date, usually 25 years of age for a black male and 18 for a female. Also, emancipation was not immediate but went into effect after a certain date, giving the slave master time to sell their slave south in order to gain the market value to the slave before the emancipation laws would go into effect within their state. In addition to this, some of the northern states required freed blacks to be removed from the state. And during this same time period the international slave trade was still being carrierd on by New England traders, even after it was declared to be piracy by Congress and therefore a capital offense.

      Lincoln stated both before the war and during the war that he didn’t believe in racial equality between blacks and whites and wanted them removed to Liberia or central america.

      The Constitution of 1787, the one we live under now, recognized slavery in three places and was the only species of property to be recognized as such.

      So should we abolish displays of all US flags from the period beginning at the Revolution to 1861? No slave was ever imported into the states under the Confederate States flag.

      Deo Vindice

  3. Joseph says:

    Hmmm…Not sure I buy into the anti-slavery North, and the pro-slavery South dichotomy. There were plenty of racist northerners, and plenty of southerners who fought for the Confederates who didn’t own slaves or even want to own slaves. Mainly people were fighting, like pretty much all wars, for whichever side they were told to fight for. Not much wealth was generated from this war, but it was still just another example of a war waged by politicians and carried on the backs of poor who had little to gain. Slavery could have and should have been ended without a war, and I have seen little evidence that it was the Civil War that ended slavery (or that slavery was ever truly ended at all, for that matter). So the Confederate Flag by itself doesn’t really bother me any more than any other flag (it does bother me, but just as a symbol of nationalism, and it’s no worse than, say, the ol’ stars and stripes as far as I’m concerned). The Confederate Flag has, however, come to be used in recent times by much more overtly racist groups, so that does taint it a bit more, and using that flag does carry with it the baggage of how the flag has been used recently. I personally don’t have the fears of an upside-down pentagram that many have, but if you go around wearing a T-Shirt with one on, while you may not necessarily be a Satanist, you should be aware that that is the message you are conveying.

    And I did try e-mailing to the e-mail address given above, but it wouldn’t go through. Is the address correct? I’m kind of leery of phones anyway, but since the e-mail address was a bust, I’m even more leery of calling that number.

    No question about it, though, the American Renaissance does seem to be a fascist, racist gathering of white supremacists who are just using euphemisms to cover up what they are really saying. And any hotel hosting this conference is tainting its name.

    • It may seem that way to you, brother……….but the fact of the matter is that alot of White Americans simply are Proud of who they are and what they are….

      Its not a crime to love your culture….

      Its not a crime to be a (RACIST!!!)…

      Its not a crime to ‘offend’ anyone….

      Racial Awareness may be morally reprehensible in your eyes…..but in our eyes, for you NOT to be Aware is rather cowardice and foolish…..

  4. Don Cooper says:

    I believe that you ARE trying to suppress free speech. Everyone in this country is allowed to be heard, even if the message makes you uncomfortable. This is the last country in the world that allows this freedom completely unrestricted. There are many, many groups who present opinion that I find disagreeable, but I find the suppression of free speech to be the most heinous of actions.

    I know it may not seem like it from your perspective, but the most noble act you can perform as an American is to allow this group the freedom to assemble and speak.

  5. rhayat1 says:

    I see a lot of hatred and venom in this article. Since the author obviously does not like American Renaissance, perhaps he can suggest an alternative organization that advocates for the interests of whites as a group and that takes an objective view of racial science. One that is not beholden to dogma and orthodoxy. I await a reasoned response…

  6. Centurian says:

    The Mormon Worker wants to prevent free speech? How Ironic, since Joseph Smith taught many “revelations” about black people. I was LDS for 10 years so you know what I’m Talking about.

    Smith taught that the black race were the descendants of Cain, who murdered his brother Able. The curse was not holding LDS priesthood and the mark was the black skin. In addition LDS beliefs (prior to 1990’s) was that those spirits who were NOT noble in the pre-existance would be born into black bodies.

    Multiculturalism is an IDEAL that not all people desire. Do you know what White Flight is? It’s been happening in America for hundreds of years. Why? Because many white people WANT to live around their own people. These people have a RIGHT to a peaceful assembly and Free speech, so don’t be like a real NAZI and try and stop that.

    • Yossarian says:

      Centurian, please give a citation since 10 years as LDS hardly qualifies as knowing what you are talking about.

      Joseph Smith gave blacks the priesthood, believed in abolition, etc. He was fairly progressive for his time. Did he have some incorrect, even racists views, sure.

      As for LDS beliefs, you are correct that many LDS leaders taught some pretty deplorable teachings on race. What is your point exactly? Racism is wrong regardless of where it comes from.

    • Mitch says:

      Uh, it was Brigham Young who taught about Cain. Please get your facts right.

      • Yossarian says:

        Mitch,

        that was my point. I was going to let Centurian have the joy of discovering he is woefully ignorant of that fact for himself.

        Joseph may have not been the most racially progressive person by today’s standards but he was pretty damn progressive for the time he lived in.

        The whole priesthood restriction nonsense came much later.

      • tristan call says:

        The best source on that is probably Armand Mauss’ book “All Abraham’s Children”, published by University of Illinois Press in, I think, 2003. An extensive and highly depressing account of the Mormon doctrinal roots of white supremacy, how they became anti-miscegenation policies, and why they eventually collapsed.

  7. Pat says:

    What is far more disturbing to me than this conference is the intolerance to free speech and freedom of assembly that you desire to stifle for those you disagree with. This is a very un-American position for you to take. You do a lot of name calling here and this looks more like a smear campaign than anything else. If these people want to believe their race is better who cares? Get over it because one day there may be a group of atheists (for example) trying to do just what you are doing and prohibit the religious freedoms you enjoy.

  8. Phil says:

    I am curious if you will be physically assaulting and/or protesting against David Yeagley, the Native American speaker at this American Renaissance conferance?

    It would seem highly racist in my opinion of you white leftists assaulted an oppressed minority, just for having an opinion of his own.

  9. Alex Lee says:

    What a ridiculous article. Here are two particularly intellectual gems:

    “When most people think of white power groups, the image of drunken, ‘trashy rednecks’ who can barely produce coherent sentences, or idiotic, violent skinheads comes to mind”,

    and

    “This, presumably is to hide all of the smelly confederate flag t-shirts and swastika tattoos that conference attendees, like the Keystone State Skinheads, would have showing otherwise”

    Even if one overlooks these two passages, the article is a still bunch of baseless name-calling. There are violent, sociopathic people in every political movement. If you have a problem with that political movement, then disprove their positions, don’t just attack them ad hominem. If you have a problem with American Renaissance or any other white advocacy organization, then engage them in debates or offer counterarguments to their claims.

    But, no, as a good leftist, it’s much easier to shut down the conference and prevent all discourse on the subject except by those you find acceptable. God forbid they ever actually have the chance to prove you so-called “anti-racists” wrong.

    Thanks for the lip service to free speech at the end, too. It almost covers up the fact that you want to silence everyone with whom you disagree.

  10. JAM says:

    Whites are the only group of people that are vilified for having pride in their accomplishments or trying to look out for their group interests. Blacks, Hispanics, Asians, etc. all have organizations that look out for their interests but Whites are viewed as racists if they voice even a modicum of concern over policies that discriminate against them.

    • Youre right Jam……..

      People are seeing this…and Whites ARE mending together…..atleast where I live..

      White People arent (RACIST!!!)…….we’re just fed up with the bull shOOt thats been happening…..We’re fed-up with the true racists, on both sides of the fence…….

      There is nothing worse to me than to see a White person hating their own….they deserve a ditch on a dirt road….

  11. Phaedon says:

    rhayat1, you’ll be wait a _very_ long time.

  12. Doom News says:

    Can’t believe in the same breath you say:

    “I encourage anti-racists to call or email the Westin to let them know what the New Century Foundation Conference really is and to encourage hotel management to stand up for racial equality by refusing to host white supremacist gatherings.”

    And then follow it with:

    “Note that I am not arguing for anyone’s free speech rights to be violated.”

    You, my unsigned writer, have brought new meaning to the word “hypocrite.”

    Since you such a defender of racial equality, I expect to see you issue a similar call to action this spring when the large Latino advocacy group La Raza (meaning “The Race”) meet in San Antonio in July.

    But I won’t be holding my breath…

    • the ‘unsigned writer’ wont because they are a coward, a pushover, a weakling…..

      They holler at Whites because were civil….but that civility is wearing off pretty quick…especially to our own people…the ones that are killing us with their mindset…..

      The unsigned writer is nothing more than conformists…’face down, butt up’ prison-chic…

      He/she will NEVER run its mouth to La Raza….or the blacks….because he/she is a scared little bitch..

      unsigned writer reminds me of the person that has a problem with someone, and instead of going to that person and confronting them they cut themselves….

      they hurt THEMSELVES!!….

      Because theyre WEAK….SCARED…COWARD in the first degree….

  13. Pat says:

    I also would like to say that I find this article a bit ironic considering the fact that the Mormons are intent on keeping alive prejudice and discrimination towards gays over their right to legally marry. Is this American Renaissance group that you don’t like advocating discrimination towards any group as you the Mormons are all too guilty of doing?

  14. Don Whitmire says:

    How can you deny anyone the right for freedom of assembly when the Mormon Church fought so hard for years to achieve it. Do you not remember Missouri and Nauvoo? Now you would deny that right to others?

    Why can the NAACP or AIPAC (Jewish-rights group) or La Raza be not only allowed to, but actually encouraged to meet (and supported by tax-payer Dollars), yet a group of European Americans cannot?

    You are a hypocrite, who has bought into the socialist-leftist idea that all cultures and people are equal and it does not matter if one people becomes displaced by another.

    I love my family and my European heritage, and will fight for both. There has never been a people as accomplished as Europeans in science, and in creating safe, stable, healthy and wealthy societies and high culture. What kind of future will your grandchildren have when the USA is 80% African and Mexican? To know that answer take a look at Haiti or any country in Africa. Is that really what you want for your children?

    I wish Africans and Mexicans no harm. I just don’t want to destroy my society and the future of my children by turning America into a predominately Third Word country.

    God placed each race on a separate continent for a reason.

  15. Dave Logsdon says:

    You’re publishing names, location and phone number is a blatant attempt to make it impossible for anyone to meet to discuss non-PC views in a lawful manner. Your use of caricatures and racial epithets in the article are further evidence of intent to inflame and defame its participants as well. Your ignorance in science is only exceeded by your unfamiliarity in your own faiths history. Look up the seed of Cain. To most blacks Mormonism is synonymous with racism and polygamy so you should have no reason to fear peering into others claiming to know their hearts. I guess for you it’s never been a Mormon problem that people misunderstood your faith. Fight the good fight brother; don’t worry about casting the first stone. You are the most un-educated, bigoted and hate filled Mormon I have ever been exposed to. I will bring up “The Mormon Worker” during the meeting. And as a word of advice on your next job application put an asterisk next to race white and let them know that although you’re white it’s okay because you’re Mormon. You could even say that you’re a member of persecuted minority. That’ll get you the job!

  16. James Dunet says:

    I’d like to see the Mormon Worker explain in depth what “pseudo science” American Renaissance is using and how rigorous science “proves” their point of view.

    You need to do it without putting words in their mouth either. (That is, if you want to be taken seriously by thinking men.)

    American Renaissance uses stasticts that show certain racial groups to be more impulsive and prone to violence than others. Google: the Color of Crime report. If you believe it to be wrong, then prove it with stastics of your own. Be sure to show your sources and how you arrived at your conclusions.

    I suspect that if those same stasticts showed White people in a very bad light, the Mormon Worker would be quoting them as “proof” of how evil whites are.

    However, the fact remains that you already had a chance to use stasticts and sources which favor your cause and chose not to.

    Is this because you intend to reveal them at a later date or because you have done little to no research about racial equality? I believe we can all guess the answer to that.

    A point by point breakdown of The Color of Crime and why it is wrong is the only thing that can save your movement now. Simple allegations of “Oppression caused all this!” just won’t do for the world of thinking men.

    • Mitch says:

      Any stats on the color of crime is not objective. If a minority group is persecuted because they are a minority, it makes sense that they will rise up and fight the system that is putting them down.

      • Don Whitmire says:

        Mitch,

        Why are crime rates very high in African nations that were never colonized nor persecuted?

        Note also that blacks live much, much better in White nations than they do in Black nations (i.e., Haiti or Congo vs. New York or Sweden), yet, even when Blacks have a very high standard of living (inside a White nation) they still committ very high levels of crime.

        Africans evolved as warriors — they still carry those genes! That’s what makes them such good athletes — much better on average than Whites or Asians. But their genes also predispose them to crime.

      • Don Whitmire says:

        Mitch,

        There is no race more persecuted than Jews, and, yet, they do not have excessively high crime. Chinese and Japanese were likewise highly persecuted in the USA, and crime is very, very low among these groups. Your logic is faulty!

      • Mitch says:

        Israel is attacked by neighboring countries, but Jews around the world are not persecuted. Blacks in other countries are dealing with extreme poverty. There is your answer.

      • Don Whitmier says:

        Blacks everywhere around the world are living in poverty, because blacks everywhere around the world have extremely low IQ. It is this low cognitive ability that prevents blacks from building any sort of civilization. Even when placed in the richest White societies, and given the best education that Whites can pay for, and fed and housed by Whites, and given special “Black” holidays and History Months, Blacks still fail (i.e., look at Black achievement rates in USA, England, Sweden, Denmark, Netherlands, Italy, etc.). Of course, a few Blacks with exceptional ability will excel (especially if they have mixed genes), but we need to focus on the average.

      • Mitch says:

        Uh, blacks are not in poverty because of low IQ. Many middle class blacks are doing just fine. Your views are very silly.

  17. George says:

    The worst era of racist violence is the present era, from the 1960s til today. At least 75,000 innocent whites have been lynched, at least 3 million have been raped, and tens of millions have been injured or ethnically cleansed since then, all of it sponsored by white-hating racists like the author of this article. If you’re white you can’t safely walk down the streets of most cities in this country, and I’ll guarantee the white-hating, brutal racist war-criminal who wrote this article has never protested that fact. Remember these facts when you hear lying, lynching liberals whine about racism.

    • Mitch says:

      Uh, most crimes against whites are committed by …….. whites!

      • Don Whitmire says:

        Mitch,

        Please get the facts before you speak — please go read “Color of Crime.”

        The bottom line is that Africans make up only 15% of our population, but committ ~40% of all crimes. Way out of proportion to thier population. For interracial rapes, Blacks rape around 35,000 ?? White girls each year, but whites rape only around 50 Black girls each year (yet there are 4 times as many Whites!!) I don’t have my copy of “Color” in front of me, so I am not absolutely sure about the 35,000. It may be only 30,000. Please go look yourself. Check out the crime stats. anywhere on the planet, where Blacks aggregate — you will see the same high crime, be it in Zimbawbe or London, or Haiti.

      • E-Nomad says:

        Funny the ‘haters’ have so much vitriol spat at them form the ‘tolerant’. Funny also, that the facts are often on the ‘haters’ side, which is promptly ignored for feel-good chest thumping.
        ;)

        http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2008/offenses/expanded_information/data/shrtable_03.html

        15% of the population, yet represent 36.5% of all all murder in 2008. Whites at 65% of the population, account for only 32%

        What is interesting is the way they present this data has changed within the last year. Previously, and i had this bookmarked for just these kinds of circumstances, the BJS had data on interracial crime, again proving that blacks attack whites much more than vice versa. ‘Oddly’ they either changed the URL of this address, or took it down. Previously this URL was

        http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/tables/ovrelracetab.htm

        If you use an archiving database, you just might be able to pull up an old copy of this page ;)

        Before i take my leave, id also like to throw some more tantalizing nuggets of info your way

        First, the lie that is that we are so similar on the genetic level, to other races. We are of the same species, for sure, but we do not carry as much similarities as previously thought

        http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2006/11/061122-human-genetics.html

        “Scientists say that surprisingly many large chunks of human DNA differ among individuals and ethnic groups.”

        Wanna know another myth on race? The out of Africa theory.

        http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/a-skull-that-rewrites-the-history-of-man-1783861.html

        Do i think ‘blacks’ should be wiped out? Or any other extreme stance? No. I do not, and neither do the people of this conference. They’re here to present factual data, ignore it all you like, it doesn’t make it go away, neither does trying to get them silenced.

      • Mitch says:

        And blacks are more likely to be born without married parents. Get your facts straight. This is about environment.

      • The Eye says:

        Don isn’t too concerned about the facts. Otherwise he would have actually addressed the fact that whites are moreso the victims of other whites. That comes from the same FBI stats that Taylor’s little screed The Color of Crime comes from, but he didn’t feel like adding that little tidbit when he wrote it.

      • Don Whitmier says:

        Mitch,

        Would you abandon your children, no matter how poor you were? Neither would I! However, 75% of USA Black children are born without a father, and 1/2 of those are abandoned by one or both parents before age 10! This is similar to the situation in Africa and anywhere Blacks are. This is in their genes. This is the way God made them. There is no amount of poverty or hardship that could make me abandon my wife or children. But, again, I’m White.

      • Mitch says:

        Uh, since most blacks are born without both parents they are at a disadvantage than their white peers. Your views are still too silly.

  18. Tariq says:

    Joseph, I’ve been having problems with the email address too. I may have gotten bad information for that. The phone number definitely works though. I apologize to anyone who tried to send emails. Anyone interested in contacting the Westin Hotel would do best to ignore the email address I gave and just stick to the phone number. And yes, I do take your point about the dichotomy. I don’t mean to argue that northern whites were all anti-racists. There certainly were many racist northerners. I was simply disagreeing with the notion that the south was fighting for “the preservation of liberty and freedom”, as confederates as a whole had absolutely no respect for the liberty and freedom of the the many black people who lived in the south.

    Don Cooper,
    How am I suppressing free speech? I’m not forcing AmRen to be quiet, and I’m not forcing the Hotel to cancel them. I’m not forcing anyone to do anything. While I recognize AmRen’s right to spew racism, I also recognize the hotel’s right to refuse to host racist conferences on their own property. Just as if I ran my own events space, I would be under no obligation to host anyone that I don’t want to host. And I wouldn’t accuse Jared Taylor of suppressing free speech if he refused to let anti-racist activists give a speech in his living room.

    Ryahat1,
    No, I will not suggest “an alternative” white supremacist group for you to denigrate black people with. And yes, I do have hatred and venom. I hate racism. By the way, for any readers out there, know that phrases like “race realism”, “racial science”, and “interests of whites as a group”, are all just white-power code words for “we hate black people”. They use these euphemisms because they are trying to gain mainstream public support for their pseudo-scientific, racist ideas.

    • Don Whitmire says:

      Tariq,

      You are obviously a thoughtful person, whom, I will assume, means well. Can you answer me this: Why why would you be against a meeting of people who what to preserve European Culture and NOT be against a group that wants to increase Mexican culture (and immigration) into the US? I am refering to La Raza (Spanish for “The Race”). I’m not being sarcastic — I really want to know how you balance these two postions.

      By the way, nearly everyone at American Renaissance agrees that each race and each nation should be free to build whatever society they want. I honestly have no hatred for Africans or Mexican-Indians. It is just that I know that the USA cannot maintain it’s standard of living once its European population is replaced by Africans and Amerindians. Would the Mormon church be the same if it became 80% Muslim or Jewish?

    • rhayat1 says:

      Tariq, listen to yourself; all that built up hatred you have in your heart cannot be good for you on any level. Every ethnic group in America has advocacy groups. Blacks have NAACP and the overtly racist “Black Caucus” in Congress. Are you active against them? Hispanics have La Raza (the Race). Are you active against them? You seem to believe that whites cannot advocate for themselves without being “racist”. Do you really believe that whites have no right to advocate for themselves? If so, why do you single them out? I must conclude that it is because you are a racist.

  19. Tariq says:

    Wow, it looks like the white supremacists have discovered my post. Let the long thread of white power comments begin…

    • E-Nomad says:

      Without refuting a SINGLE one of them

      Defend your stance for cripe sake.

      Present data!

      PROVE what you believe.

      The problem with you types is you have no backing, no spine, and no real argument You just yell “racist” every 2 sentences, talk about the 1960’s and old news, and pretend that there is nothing more to it! INSTANTLY slandering detractors. These ‘racists’ posting on this article you are SO quick to condemn are here trying to engage in polite debate while issuing facts, i have also submitted some URL’s worth checking, aligned with data.

      Yet still, you ignore them and slander instead.

      You default on smear campaigns and name calling.

      You fail for as long as you continue to run from this.

      Silencing your opposition does not work.

      Name calling does not work.

      http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2006/11/061122-human-genetics.html

      Just one of the pieces i presented earlier, that we are more different than previously believed. There is more, there is plenty of information, and none of it touting White power! Whatdya know!

      These are not white supremacists you’re dealing with, these are not the ‘Racists’ from your cliche’d intrepid Hollywood films, these are people presenting points that you have NOT COUNTERED.

      Better yet, attend the conference and refute all of those ‘racists’ and PROVE you are in the right.

      Engage in debate or FLEE but don’t consider yourself that glorious ‘anti hater’ knight whilst running away!

      It is what makes you types so annoying. Not that you are our anathema or our polar opposite.

      But the fact you stand by these on a strictly subjective feel-good moral highground.

  20. Walter Lewkowski says:

    Think of white supremacy as theory A; and the not white-supremacy as theory not-A.

    Both theories should stand or fall on their merits. Emotions should be left out. Demonizing one theory has no place in determining truth or falsity.

    Toyota may claim that its Camray is superior to the Honda’s Accord. If a conference is held to decide which is indeed the superior car, the hotel hosting the conference should not be harassed because the group is Japanese and the evil Japanese bomb Pearl Harbor.

    Standing around and yelling looks too much like deplorable Nazi behavior, the very thing you are fighting against. Bombarding the hotel with phone call and e-mail protest is spineless and hurts the innocent workers at the hotel.

    The best course of action is to attend the meeting and show by intelligent arguments and good behavior that white supremacy is not true.

  21. P Schwartz says:

    I’m sorry, but it simply is incorrect that the idea of group differences has been debunked. In fact, science is revealing the basis for differences.

    “Last year, Dr. Lahn, one of a select group of researchers supported by the Howard Hughes Medical Institute, showed that a group of 20 brain-associated genes, including microcephalin and ASPM, had evolved faster in the great ape lineage than in mice and rats. He concluded that these genes might have had important roles in human evolution. As part of this study, he noticed that microcephalin and ASPM had an unusual pattern of alleles. With each gene, one allele was much more common than all the others. He and his colleagues have now studied the worldwide distribution of the alleles by decoding the DNA of the two genes in many different populations.

    They report that with microcephalin, a new allele arose about 37,000 years ago, although it could have appeared as early as 60,000 or as late as 14,000 years ago. About 70 percent of people in most European and East Asian populations carry this allele of the gene, but it is much rarer in most sub-Saharan Africans.

    With the other gene, ASPM, a new allele emerged 14,100 to 500 years ago, the researchers favoring a midway date of 5,800 years. The allele has attained a frequency of about 50 percent in populations of the Middle East and Europe, is less common in East Asia, and is found at low frequency in some sub-Saharan Africa peoples.”

    http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9B01E1DE1331F93AA3575AC0A9639C8B63&sec=health

  22. P Schwartz says:

    If you wish to see the latest position, you may consider the June 2005 issue of Psychology, Public Policy, and Law, Vol. 11, No. 2. This discusses the evidence with commentaries from several experts.

    http://www.udel.edu/educ/gottfredson/30years/

    Or more recently, see Ankney, C. D. (2009). Whole-brain size and general mental ability: A review. International Journal of Neuroscience, 119, 691-731

    http://psychology.uwo.ca/faculty/rushtonpdfs/2009%20IJN.pdf

  23. Tim W says:

    Tariq, I feel so sorry for you. Paintbrushing AmRen as a bunch of hate Mongoring Nazis is pretty sad and pathetic. Most of them wish for nothing more than the preservation of their own race and not to have multi-cultarilism shoved down their throats. This is something that ALL races deserve.

    Your comments about free speech are a joke. You are attempting to suppress their free speech by pressuring the hotel where their conference is being held at. It’s as simple as that. If you weren’t interested in suppressing their free speech, you would leave them alone.

  24. Molly says:

    Tariq:

    “…as confederates as a whole had absolutely no respect for the liberty and freedom of the the many black people who lived in the south.”

    The War between the States was more about State’s rights than anything. Slavery, of course, was one of those defining state’s rights issues.

    I am offended, as a Southerner, born and bred, that you generalize that as a whole, we and our past families had no respect for liberty and freedom with respect to black people. You can’t defend this statement. It’s untrue.

    I’m always troubled when we members of the Church use hate to defend our positions, regardless of what those positions might be.

    Why would you want to inflame a situation and cause differing groups to go to battle?

    And the Confederate flag, like anything else, can be used with negative connotations.

    • Mitch says:

      Molly, with all due respect you are the one who posted Brother Harry Reid giving the middle finger. That, in my view, is using hate to defend your political position. It is true that members of the South should not be rolled into one ball of characterization, but slavery was a money maker for whites in the South. It is part of your southern history, and race is still a sensitive issue for those who continue to live in the South.

      • Molly says:

        It wasn’t hate…it’s pure unadulterated dislike, and I posted it to be funny, not hateful. It suited the post.

      • Molly says:

        Mitch, you’re right..it continues to be a sensitive issue here, but it doesn’t mean we all buy into it or practice it. This was my point.

      • Mitch says:

        Molly, with Harry Reid, would you be proud to have him see your post in front of you? Would you still think it is funny? I know you don’t like some of the things he does, but it seems over the line to use the pictures on your post.

      • Molly says:

        Mitch:

        As I said in retrospect, I could probably have found a better photo. As a matter of fact, he and I both have probably made bad decisions. Think he could face me and own up to his like I have mine?

      • Mitch says:

        I would hope that Harry Reid would give you a hug and say that all of us could do better.

      • Molly says:

        :) When he does, I’ll drop you a line, and I’ll apologize to him..how’s that?

    • Mitch says:

      That would be a very good day.

  25. Don Whitmire says:

    Tariq,

    Good journalism must be based on honesty and facts.

    You say: “Jared Taylor uses long-debunked pseudo-science to claim that black people are genetically pre-disposed to have lower IQs than white people and that black people are naturally prone to violence and crime.”

    I am a scientist and I tell you with 99% assurance that there are giant racial differences in IQ. We now know that Jews have the highest IQ (108), N.E. Asians (106), Europeans (100), AmerIndians (79), African Blacks (75), and Aborigines (70). Most psychologists (psycometricians) admit this (except socialists, multiculturalists, and highly religious psychologists, etc.) NOT PSUEDOSCIENCE!

    These IQ differences cause different races to achieve differently. That is why Jews excel as lawyers, physicians, scientists, bankers, businessmen, etc. Did you know that Jews are only 3% of USA population, yet comprise 10 to 35% of of most university faculty? Same with the achievements of Japanese and Chinese.

    The average low IQ of Africans puts them at a great disadvantage, and this is why Africans never invented writing, mathematics, or the wheel, or anything else. Today, anywhere on the planet where Africans gather is a disaster, be it in Africa, Haiti, New Orleans, or Detroit. You can’t fix genes by education. Academic and career failure of Blacks will continue every generation.

    This is why it is insanity to use immigration to replace our European population with Africans and Mexicans (and now Haitians). We can already see the results in California, which used to the greatest state in the USA, but now is in economic and social collapse. What will America look like once it becomes 80% Black and Hispanic? Take a look at Haiti or Mexico for your answer.

    Why is love for ones own culture, extended family, and nation referred to as Hate?

    • Mitch says:

      Very subjective with your comments about IQ. Blacks were oppressed when they came to this country. It has taken years for them to have the opportunity of a fair education. IQ is based on environment as well as genes.

      • Don Whitmire says:

        Mitch,

        Yes, there is an environmental component to IQ, but research (twin studies, etc.) has definately shown that it is very low. Your IQ can increase up to 3-4 points by having an excellent education. However this cannot make up for what your genes gave you. Being hit very hard with a hammer or bullet in the head can lower IQ to zero.

        In contrast, knowledge is based almost all on environment (learning and experience). But knowledge is different from IQ, and IQ tests for the latter. Also, because IQ is genetic, each generation of Jews and Africans will average IQ 108 and 75. This is why the “achievement-gap” will never, never, never go away, no matter how much money we spend on inner city education.

      • Mitch says:

        The achievement gap will equal out if the environment for blacks changes. This is not about IQ.

      • Don Whitmier says:

        “The achievement gap will equal out if the environment for blacks changes.”

        Mitch, don’t you read any scientific literature? We stopped believing in environmental causes for low IQ 15 years ago! We have now conducted dozens and dozens of studies and determined that even when Blacks are raised in very wealthy families and communities, they still gravitate to the mean IQ for their race. For example, test scores for children of rich Blacks are lower than children of poor Whites. Adoption and twin studies also disprove the “environmental theory.”

        Do you also think that skin color and lactose-intolerance are “environmental? Please take a basic genetics class.

      • Mitch says:

        Uh, why would I take a science class when I have life experience on the issue. My wife, a quarter black, did just fine growing up. My children, an eighth black, are above average than their peers. Again, you are very silly trying to put a triangle in an oval hole.

    • Paul Froehlich says:

      Don, you stated that the average I.Q. of Europeans is 100. This is incorrect. I think that you were referring to European-Americans. I.Q. of course differs from European nation to European nation, from 97 in Ireland and Scotland to 107 in Germany (highest in Europe, some stuides have found that north Germans (not sure how “north German” is defined) have an average I.Q. of 109-111).

  26. Molly says:

    PS…Has it occured to you that the words you’ve posted eliminate the Spirit’s presence during this discussion?

    Just a thought to ponder.

  27. Molly says:

    Don:

    Off topic…

    What kind of scientist? Do you have any opinions on HAARP?

  28. Don Whitmire says:

    Molly,

    Are you talking about the raido-emmisions HAARP?

    Please define HAARP?

  29. Molly says:

    Don, yes.

    http://www.haarp.alaska.edu/

    I’m interested to know if you have an opinion about China, Haiti and these earthquakes as related to this technology, or if you’ve had an opportunity to read about this.

  30. Frank-Roman says:

    “Wow.” Stop flattering yourself, Tariq. You are a nobody. You are a sheep, a PC passenger on a flight to nowhere.

    You see the logical outcome to racial diversity breeds group blending, which is to say no (racial) group wins. And yet no one can get themselves to believe that so-called “racism” breeds group individuality, that it preserves the distinctions Nature has given us all. In other words, separation means life; the preservation of cultural and racial identity, while mixing means the death of racial and cultural identity. How hard is that to understand? Does that sound like “hate” to you?

    I am quite sure that AmRen will be happy to give you all the stage time you can stand to spew your equality bilge. Be there.

    And by the way genius, European American people do not, have not, and have never had the market cornered on true undisguised “hate.”

    Sniff this: http://www.theamericanresistance.com/race_industry/true_agenda_audio.html

  31. Don Whitmire says:

    Molly,

    I am a passionate ecologist, yet, I do not think that HAARP has anything to do with earthquakes. We know from both human and geologic history that earthquakes are exceedinly common. It is almost certain that during our lifetimes, there will be an earthquake, volcano, or tsunami that will exceed the destruction and death of Haiti and China combined.

    Did that answer your question.

  32. Molly says:

    Don:

    It did, but it didn’t qwell my curiosity. :) I’m fascinated.

    Thank you for taking time to reply, though.

    You might want to check out our blog if you have a chance. We could use a scientist over there..lol.

    http://kudzumollymormon.blogspot.com

  33. Molly says:

    Yossarian:

    I am for real. The tone of this conversation is not conducive to the Spirit. Are you LDS?

    • Yossarian says:

      Tone? So the spirit is more concerned about tone than the racist drivel being posted here by commenters? Fascinating.

    • Yossarian says:

      I fail to see why my religious standing matters. But yes Im LDS.

      • Molly says:

        Sorry, I’m getting accustomed to your reply format.

        I didn’t want to get into a debate about religious preferences if you weren’t. And I didn’t mean to derail this debate, but it just occurred to me that debates are always more enjoyable, even difficult topics, when the Spirit is present. It occurred to me, and I typed it. And since you’re LDS, you understand that when we use demeaning, angry rhetoric, regardless of our passion surrounding the topic, the Spirit withdraws.

  34. Molly says:

    Don:

    Thank you…it did. But it didn’t quell my curiosity. :)

  35. Molly says:

    I didn’t want to get into a debate about religious preferences if you weren’t. And I didn’t mean to derail this debate, but it just occurred to me that debates are always more enjoyable, even difficult topics, when the Spirit is present. It occurred to me, and I typed it. And since you’re LDS, you understand that when we use demeaning, angry rhetoric, regardless of our passion surrounding the topic, the Spirit withdraws.

    • Mitch says:

      Molly, it is true that we should all be nice when we blog, but I would say that the Spirit is better served when we are physically present. It just isn’t the same when I type a comment and then hit the send button.

      • Molly says:

        Mitch, I disagree.

        Don’t you feel the Spirit withdraw when you enter into a discussion and you type things or respond to comments in a negative way that pushes your buttons or causes you or someone else to feel anger? I do. I don’t always succeed at being “nice” when I blog. Heck, sometimes I am offensive(Like the Harry finger). I did regret doing it, but I’m trying to be a better blogger.

        It was simply a thought, and I thought I should express it.

      • Mitch says:

        I look at it on what my actions are. If someone types something very hateful I still have the Spirit with me. I do agree that I would lose the Spirit if I typed hateful things.

      • Molly says:

        Exactly my point. I thought the debate was going to the dogs, and I had the thought and typed it. That simple. No disagreement. Maybe, for some reason, the tone of the debate should have been changed. Who knows? I’m trying to be better at responding when I have these thoughts..just in case.

  36. Brian says:

    American Ren is a harmless organization. They talk about things like crimes and illegal immigration, but they never discuss who was behind the 1965 Immigration Act that’s turning America into a third world country

    Find out for yourself. Google “Jewish Involvement In Shaping American Immigration Policy” by Professor Kevin MacDonald

  37. Pat says:

    To side with the evidence concerning racial behavioral and IQ differences has nothing at all to do with hatred. The facts are what they are and an honest person will side with the facts whether or not they are to their personal liking.

    • Don Whitmire says:

      Because all truths are connected, it is vitally important to always tell the truth. Basing our society on un-truths can lead to bad consequences (and is against God’s Laws).

      The truth is that Blacks have darker skin, Asians tend to have slanted eyes, Blacks tend to have low IQ, Asians are usually lactose-intolerant, Africans are better athletes, Inuit (Eskamos) have fantastic cold-tolerance, Somalians have fantastic heat-tolerance, and Aboriginies have a better sense of smell. This is human genetic diversity and we should celebrate this diversity, instead of pretending it doesn’t exist.

      The low IQ of some races make it difficult for them to maintain civilizations. It is unfortunate, but a reality. It also means that it is dangerous to import many Africans into your society.

      • Mitch says:

        Very foolish statement.

      • Don Whitmier says:

        Mitch,

        In all of your posts, all you do is complain and name-call: “Very foolish,” etc.

        If you have evidence for your side, please present it! By name-calling and deriding, all you do is show your ignorance.

        You say that my ideas are foolish. OK, please tell me which of my ideas (below) are foolish, and why.

        1) All truths are connected.
        2) Basing society on un-truths is damaging.
        3)Blacks have darker skin.
        etc.
        etc.

        You cannot defend your position, because it is wrong. Therefore you name call. Your action exposes your inability to think.

      • Mitch says:

        Uh, name calling? Very foolish of you to assume name calling on my part. Your data is not true because it implies that God created an inferier race. I would love to see you on judgement day trying to tell God that he is a racist!

  38. Bruce in Vancouver says:

    There is, No Equality in Nature.

    As the saying goes…… Better to be hated for the truth, than loved for a lie.

  39. Adrian says:

    Everybody has the right to gather, there are tens of thousands of organizations for blacks and every group thinkable, but if a group like American Renaissance says: let’s talk about the future of white people as a group, and as I understand they even have a lot of Jewish members. Then It is a “supremacist” group that should be smothered, they will speak on the future of white people, why do you insist that they hate other people or stand against others. If that was the case then La Raza and every black and Latino group organization should be shut down immediately.

  40. Michael Dean Miller says:

    .

    To those who would deny AmRen the use of the conference facilities, would you mind if they eat at the lunchcounter of the diner.

    Riding in the front of the bus okay with you, too?

    .

  41. Mike O says:

    Here we go again, the Mormans who didn’t allow blacks in until where forced under threat of loosing their tax excempt status fighting against what they actually believe, how pathetic.

    The Mormans love the illegals, they see Mexico as 90 million future Mormans, the Mexicans see the Mormans as suckers for all the assistance thgey give.

  42. bryan says:

    Why do we play these stupid games and call anti white whites…liberals, commies or whtever…Please listen to me! Lets call them ‘white haters’ plain and simple. Stop playing the liberal conservative game that is designed.

  43. Sebastian says:

    This article sounds like as if it was written by Spanish Inquisition. KILL THE HERETIC…BURN THE WITCH!

    And you just have to love the last part by the champions of free speech. George Orwell would be proud.

  44. Amethyst says:

    Mitch–You pointed out that most blacks are born out of wedlock.

    Now that wouldn’t have anything to do with blacks’ inability to delay gratification, would it…?

  45. Wild Bill says:

    By calling for the censure of American Renaissance The Mormon Worker has aligned itself hand in glove with the Communist Party.

    A reading of the literature will demonstrate that the Communist Party is the confirmed butcher of over one hundred million people.

    When the Communist Party turns on the individual members of The Mormon Church, you, the Mormon intelligentsia, will at least have the satisfaction of knowing that you, by refusing to stand for the preservation of the Great White Race, helped to make the genocide of your brothers and sisters possible.

  46. rhayat1 says:

    re: the comments by Mitch. Mitch, you claim that blacks perform poorly, and are prone to violence, because of “extreme poverty” and fatherless upbringings. Yes, environment has an impact upon I.Q. and yes, those two factors contribute to the problem. But what we have here is a feedback cycle. Low average I.Q. is a factor that leads to poverty and innate mating strategies (a relatively r-selected strategy)leads to fatherless families – the fathers being busy impregnating other females. Things are not as simple as you would have them be and, as the last 50 years of leftist social experiments have shown, merely improving the lot of blacks does not make racial disparities go away. As for your comment about Jews, it’s true that these days, we Jews don’t suffer much from antisemitism. However, there were several centuries when we suffered from it greatly and we were still more intelligent, on average, than the average non-Jew. The same can be said for diaspora Chinese today in South East Asia and certain groups in India. Oppression certainly does not lead to lower I.Q. Neither does poverty – but poverty is a byproduct of low I.Q. and, as stated, there is a feedback cycle. You don’t agree with me and that is fine, but you should at least be open-minded enough to acknowledge the need for open discussion of the matter – and this is one of the things we do at the conferences you so vehemently oppose.

  47. Simmons says:

    The vicious ideology of “Anti-racism” is about being anti-white which is being for the genocide of whites and the destruction of white countries only.

    If this ideology where applied to an African, Asian or the beloved country the Mormons favorite the Pacific Islanders it would be cause for prosecution under the 1948 UN Convention on Genocide.

  48. Aaron says:

    “Jared Taylor uses long-debunked pseudo-science to claim that black people are genetically pre-disposed to have lower IQs than white people and that black people are naturally prone to violence and crime.”

    You should come to the conference, and bring these debunkings with you.

    I wish you the best of luck in finding them.

  49. anna says:

    I want to read further. What IS racism? In school, they have one theory that says that race is not really a real category —that it literally does not EXIST. But that does not seem like the idea which America subscribes to. Eg: in news media, it is treated as real and like it matters a LOT (they talk about it all the time). So, since it’s real, you can be racist against one group, but not another: like, you can be racist against Asians, but not Jewish people, or against blacks but not Asians, or against Whites but not Asians, or against Latins but not African Americans, and so on. If race is a real thing, and it exists, and you can be racist against some groups and not others then the issue becomes a matter of “supremacy” where the issue is not “race” but people within ANY GIVEN group who seem to think they are better than another group. Thus “supremacists.” That means, you should be against Asian supremacists, Jewish supremacists, Black supremacists, White supremacists, and in classes also, like white collar supremacists— as in when the government says they will go against statistics and the public will and enact policies for the people that the people do not want. But if you counter that and would say it is white-collar-supremacists, you are “a-social.” The whole matter gets confusing. You just have to keep studying and reading to try to understand, I guess. That’s what I hope to do in my education. Thanks for your site!

    • Don Whitmier says:

      anna,

      Yes, you are correct. They tell us that there is no such thing as race, yet Diversity is our greatest strength!

      The tell us that we are all exactly the same, while having special programs for some races, but not others.

      Try telling a Black person that his/her race does not exist. After all, “It’s a Black thang.”

      It is better to simply admit the truth: There are races and they very quite a bit in numerous ways.

    • Don Whitmier says:

      Anna, for a different opinion, please visit the American Renaissance web-site. Please post your questions and comments there.

  50. James Dunet says:

    With all the effort placed into uplift of the Black community since the 1960’s you should see by now that genetics are the primary factor in one’s success or failure.

    If what my Liberal parents and many of their friends did to uplift Blacks and other non-Whites is oppression, then the word has lost all meaning. I have seen first hand the combonation of White Liberals giving Blacks the same guidance and resources that they gave me and the Blacks making stunningly poor decisions still. I thought it was nothing but some bad apples until I got out on my own and saw the same short-sighted, impulsive behavior patterns in both oppressed and non-oppressed Blacks.

    Tell us all how can a conferance be “White Supremacist” when it says correctly so, that Jews and Asians average higher on the I.Q. test than Whites. Below Whites are Hispanics and then Blacks.

    It’s like they say anti’s, “Denial is not just a river in Egypt.”

    You say oppression is the main cause because it makes you feel good. You don’t explain why certain groups are so easily and so often oppressed.

    Do try to bring some facts and figures to the discussion that go deeper than “Inequality is caused by Oppression.”

  51. Don Whitmier says:

    Tariq,

    I know for a fact that over the years some LDS members have been arrested for child pornography or rape. Because of this, would you advise protests against the LDS church?

    It is the same with AmRen — occasionally a bad apple slips in, but we try to keep them out. For the most part, we are very similar to most Mormons. We believe in strong families, teaching our children morality, economic independence, obeying the law, staying off drugs, sexual responsibility, and education. We love our people, our nation, and our amazingly successful European-derived culture. We want to preserve that for our posterity, the same way you want to preserve the church for your kids.

    At AmRen we discuss things like immigration, overpopulation, affirmative-action, racial gaps in education, “racism,” and conservation of our declining environment and economy. Why is that so bad? — BTW, I was raised LDS.

  52. Joseph says:

    Wow. Glad I didn’t click the “notify me of follow-up comments via e-mail” box. This post really touched a nerve. The fascists have gone nuts over this. I definitely see that as a good thing. All the nut-job responses to this post inspired me to overcome my fear of phones and call the number listed here and encourage the hotel to cancel this conference.

    And Tariq, I realize my response will probably get drowned out in the midst of this sea of craziness that has flooded this post, but I do want to say I do agree that Confederate claims to fighting for “liberty and freedom” are unfounded.

    And to those who seem to have visited this blog for the sole purpose of trying to justify the unjustifiable, let me end with one of my favorite song lyrics:

    “You fascists are bound to lose!”

  53. rhayat1 says:

    Joseph, do you even know what a “fascist” is? I’m libertarian. You seek to stifle the free exchange of ideas – which is characteristic if fascism. Again, you make no attempt to counter our arguments; all you know how to do is name-call.

  54. Tariq says:

    Ha ha ha! White supremacists are a crazy bunch! Looks like I shook up a box of rattlesnakes. I find it particularly entertaining that you silly fools think that your free speech rights are contingent upon whether or not a private business will host your get-togethers. If your “logic” holds up (which it does not), then I guess that Jared Taylor is violating my free speech rights because he won’t let me have an anti-racist conference in his living room. But please, keep the comments coming. The more you white-pride types comment, the more you show the public that underneath your jackets and ties, you’re just a bunch of nazi trash. Oh, and by the way, the U.S. is going to continue to become more and more racially and ethnically diverse, and there is nothing you can do to stop that. But good luck. I’m sure your constant racist whining on the internet will make a big impact on society. Adios amigos.

    • Pat says:

      Considering the effort the Mormons put into seeing that marriage discrimination against gays persists in California, the saying “the pot calling the kettle black” comes to mind here. By their own actions and position on certain issues, the Mormons themselves should be considered a hate group and their behavior towards gays is far more egregious than anything American Renaissance is doing or advocating. You are a foolish hypocrite and what you attempt is nothing new. Theists like you have been trying to stifle science for various reasons for centuries and you have and will continue to fail in your efforts. Science trumps dogma every time.

    • Walter Lewkowski says:

      “If your ‘logic’ holds up (which it does not), then I guess that Jared Taylor is violating my free speech rights because he won’t let me have an anti-racist conference in his living room.”

      You are dead wrong.

      Jared Taylor will let you have an anti-racist conference in his living room, provided you pay the going rate, which may be over $2,000,000.

      If that’s too high you can hold one in my living room for half that price and I don’t care how many Fascists call my number to try and get me to cancel.

      One thing about leftists that makes them look foolish is their gross ignorance of the free market.

  55. Tim in So Cal says:

    Why is it Tariq that you feel the need to attack people who are proud of their heritage? When did it become an offense against civil society or an egregious act for one to promote one’s heritage, race or ethnic origin? Logically, in my opinion, it appears that you & folks whom share your philosophical positions are being extremely intolerant. What about organizations such as the NAAC”Liberal”P, LaRaza, Black Panther Party, FAIR and SPLC? Are these not racially, religiously or ethnically identifiable organizations? Do they not promote their racial or own philosophical agendas? Why is it then that you are so frightened at the idea if a Euro-centric similar organization?

    I would, if I were members of some of the aforementioned organizations, be extremely careful gleefully riding on this late 20th century pendulum at what appears to be the apex of it’s path. When it swings back it will be with much force my brother man. Why would you expect mankind to be separate from the laws of physics? “For every action…” Well, remember where the overwhelming majority of man’s giant technological, philosophical, political medical, military etc.. leaps forward came from in the last 260-280 years. When all of us on this pendulum begin the ride back it will be aided by these same people who were so very identifiable as the greatest contributors to the modern world and even though there are wonderful advancements that enrich ALL the people’s of the world’s lives there comes with that another side that will contend with humanity’s vagrant hitch hikers as it always has. So, enjoy the ride fella, it’s coming to the return path rapidly. When the others awaken to the truth, your time has come and it is best to belong to a tribe you can trust, where ever that tribe may be.

    I end with a truly sincere G_D Bless you and have mercy on your posterity because I as well as many others are all out of mercy.

    “Posterity, you will never know how much it cost the present generation to preserve your freedom. I hope you will make good use of it. If you do not, I shall repent in heaven that ever I took half the pains to preserve it.” — John Adams “Old WHITE CHRISTIAN DUDE”

  56. P Schwartz says:

    Tariq,

    Do you also feel this way about the Dalai Lama wanting Tibetans to remain a majority or Israel wanting to preserve its culture?

    “Israel plans to build a wall along its border with Egypt in a bid to stem the flow of migrants and militants. The $270 million structure will block two main routes along the frontier and use advanced surveillance equipment. “This is a strategic decision to secure Israel’s Jewish and democratic character,” Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu told the BBC. Israeli officials say up to 200 illegal migrants sneak through each week.”

    http://www.newser.com/story/77891/israel-to-erect-egypt-border-wall.html

  57. P Schwartz says:

    Tariq,

    “White supremacists are a crazy bunch!”

    East Asians have higher average IQ than whites.

    Rushton, J. P., & Jensen, A. R. (2005). Thirty years of research on race differences in cognitive ability. Psychology, Public Policy, and Law, 11, 235-294.

    http://www.udel.edu/educ/gottfredson/30years/Rushton-Jensen30years.pdf

  58. Joseph says:

    Why do I bother with a conversation that has clearly spun out of control? Oh well.

    rhayat1,

    American Heritage Dictionary has the following definition:

    “fascism, a system of government that exercises a dictatorship of the extreme right, typically through the merging of state and business leadership, together with belligerent nationalism”

    I see a lot of belligerent nationalism in the above responses. Words also have connotations as well as their exact meaning, and because the German Nazi brand of fascism involved racism combined with Social Darwinism, the term “fascist” carries with it that meaning as well. It is an overused word, but I have not misused it here. Make no mistake, ultimately I am opposed to any form of totalitarianism, and I don’t rigidly follow any ideology for that reason. And I have not restricted anyone’s freedom of speech. I have simply encouraged a privately owned hotel not to taint it’s name with a racist conference. The American Renaissance people can say whatever they want, as evidenced by the responses to this post.

    Pat,
    Most who post for the Mormon Worker were opposed to Proposition 8. You posted your rant to the wrong blog.

    To the American Renaissance people in general:

    There is no scientific evidence that there is any race but the human race. The amount of pigment in the skin has in no way been shown to be an indication of mental or any other abilities. Citing population statistics is useless, because correlation is not proof of causation (i.e. large amounts of pigment in the skin does not mean you will be a great basketball player, regardless of any population characteristics of the NBA, because there are multiple factors involved). There is no evidence of any group of the human race having evolved a more advanced brain other than the one that separated human beings from other simian species thousands of years ago. Ultimately, in fact, groups like the American Renaissance prove the exact opposite.

    I’m sure there will be more rantings following this response, but I’m done with this topic. Time to move on. Thanks, Tariq, for encouraging and giving me an opportunity to stand up to this ignorance.

  59. Joseph says:

    Oops, one more thing.

    I.Q. tests are meaningless also, because they are always rigged by one group or another to look for certain things. They do not measure overall mental abilities. They have to do with cultural expectations, etc., not the actual physiology of the brain.

  60. Don Whitmier says:

    “I.Q. tests are meaningless”

    Joseph, I am utterly astounded by your ignorance! IQ tests very highly correlate with virtually all cognitive-related traits and performances, including academic and career performance, propensity for crime, divorce, drug use, anti-social behavior, etc. Any university library in the nation has 15 ft of shelf space of books and journals showing the validity of IQ tests. You might as well claim that the Earth is flat!

    Do you honestly think you will gain support for your ideas by simply stating outright lies? By the way, next time you have the chance, hire someone with an IQ of 75 (the average for Black Africans).

  61. Don Whitmier says:

    “There is no scientific evidence that there is any race but the human race.”

    Joseph, once again you show your complete ignorance of modern science. Take a genetics class! Read a science book! Stop watching TV. When you say such stupid things it really exposes your ignorance.

    You probably also believe that there is no difference between dog breeds. Please prove to us that genes don’t matter and buy a pit bull instead of a poodle for your children.

  62. Yossarian says:

    Im just going to paste some info on this. I personally find the hierarchy of races arguments from most commenters unconvincing.

    “Neurogenesis and neuroplasticity proves that a nurturing social and family setting shifts IQ, perspective, and emotional IQ. The so-called bell curve isn’t genetic. Oppressed Tibetans and Chinese ethnic minorities -whose test scores soar in the United States and Canada- are 20-30 points lower in their homeland. That 20-30 points deficit is in the same range of a lot of groups that are attacked or threatened (Muslims in France, Christians in Nigeria, Blacks in America). Conversely when oppressed groups are removed from their environment their IQ, emotional health returns to a normal rate, thus proving that is NOT genetic.

    It is plastic, shifting and based upon the environment.
    That is why people under prolonged stress experience memory loss, emotional outbursts and many other symptoms of a mind that is under duress. When the stress ends, normal memory levels return. A Black male living in the inner city in a single parent household facing an assortment of threats is obviously going to test differently than a white child growing up in the suburbs in a nurturing environment.”

    • Don Whitmire says:

      Yes, but then why is it that a Black child growing up in a rich, loving, 2 parent home in a rich neighborhood, and attending a prestegious academy will still test low?

      Look, the “genetic camp” admits that IQ is about 50% genetic and 50% environmental (that is what science tells us, so that is what we believe). It is the deceitful “environmental camp” that refuses to even admit that genetics has anything to do with IQ, even in the face of strong scientific data.

      • Mitch says:

        Rich black kids test above average. Your data is silly. Their environment allows them to get a better education.

  63. Yossarian says:

    From a review of Richard E. Nisbett’s book Intelligence and how to get it: Why Schools and Culture Count:

    Even if genes play some role in determining I.Q. differences within a population, which Nisbett grants, that implies nothing about average differences between populations. The classic example is corn seed planted on two plots of land, one with rich soil and the other with poor soil. Within each plot, differences in the height of the corn plants are completely genetic. Yet the average difference between the two plots is entirely environmental. Could the same logic explain the disparity in average I.Q. between Americans of European and of African descent? Nisbett thinks so.

    The racial I.Q. gap, he argues, is “purely environmental.” For one thing, it’s been shrinking: over the last 30 years, the measured I.Q. difference between black and white 12-year-olds has dropped from 15 points to 9.5 points. Among his more direct evidence, Nisbett cites impressive studies in population genetics. African-Americans have on average about 20 percent European genes, largely as a legacy of slavery. But the proportion of European genes ranges widely among individuals, from near zero to more than 80 percent. If the racial gap is mostly genetic, then blacks with more European genes ought to have higher I.Q.’s on average. In fact, they don’t.
    Nisbett is similarly skeptical that genetics could account for the intellectual prowess of Ashkenazi Jews, whose average I.Q. measures somewhere between 110 and 115. As for the alleged I.Q. superiority of East Asians over American whites, that turns out to be an artifact of sloppy comparisons; when I.Q. tests are properly normed, Americans actually score slightly higher than East Asians.
    If I.Q. differences are indeed largely environmental, what might help eliminate group disparities? The most dramatic results come from adoption. When poor children are adopted by upper-middle-class families, they show an I.Q. gain of 12 to 16 points.

    • Sandy says:

      The difference in human and chimpanzee intelligence surely has nothing to do with genetics – it must be a product of culture!

      Hey Yossarian, take a good look at the world, and I think you will find that studies of race and IQ conform pretty well with the expected outcomes of various groups.

    • Don Whitmire says:

      Yossarian,

      Thanks for bringing some facts and logic to the “environmental” side of the argument. Now, virtually everything Nisbett says can be disproved or countered.

      We don’t have space to counter each argument, but I will use his first two points to show you what I mean.

      Point 1: Differences in populations do not mean differences between populations. This statement is true, but misleading. In fact, differences within populations do not rule out differences between populations. However, in virtually all the other dozens of genetic-trait-population studies conducted (on animals and plants), whenever we find strong intrapopulation genetic variability, we also find strong interpopulation genetic variability. Why should IQ be any different. An simple example is humnan skin color: Population 1 (Africans) range from Nigerian blue-black to Kosan yellow brown. Population 2 (Europeans) range from Swedish snow white to Italian or Spanish brown. Are you going to tell me that the racial differences in skin color between Africans and Europeans are not genetic?

      Point # 2: Nisbett plays a trick on the reader by starting with 2 sets of seeds that are identical, and, low-and-behold, then finds no genetic difference. Ha, Ha, and you fell for it! Let’s start instead with one hybrid set of tall corn and one set of short wild corn ancestor seeds from Mexico. Plant both in good and bad soils and in each case the hybrid seeds will be much taller. And the size difference in each environment is genetic.

      I could go on disproving every one of Nisbetts points. Racial differences are a fascinating subject, but you need to read both sides of the argument.

  64. Yossarian says:

    The problem with so many of these commenters is that they take what may be differences in IQ as measured by tests and then extrapolate those results to make conclusions about the value of different groups. Whites are superior, blacks are dumb, etc. The reality is that you can’t deduce an individual’s intelligence from her ethnicity. The only thing you can reasonably infer is that anyone who presumes to rate your IQ based on the color of your skin is probably dumber than you are.

    • Sandy says:

      No Yossarian, what commenters on this site are doing is extrapolating population tendencies from population means. The Black African population has a lower mean IQ than the white population; similarly, there are differences in the means for many other behavioral traits. Look at Detroit, New Orleans (after Katrina), Haiti, or all of sub-Saharan Africa – such civilizations are the products of Black African behavior. Now look at Rome, Paris, the early American republic, Australia – such civilizations are the products of European behavior. It’s not that hard to figure out. Do you value running water, electricity, low crime rates, a constitutional government, and public services? Then perhaps you value living in a civilization that is built and maintained by Europeans. If not, then you should try living in Mexico, S. Africa, Haiti, China, or Saudi Arabia, and report back to us what it’s like to live amongst populations with very different average behavioral tendencies than that of your host population.

      • Yossarian says:

        Population tendencies??? Behavioral traits???

        So European Culture is marked by an aggressive tendency to commit genocide, slavery, and engage in empire building on the backs of those they oppress? Your “scientific method” consists of isolating bad behavior among groups with a predominant race and then correlating that to race. btw, read guns, germs, and steel.

        all your comment does is illustrate the racism behind what many are claiming is simply scientific inquiry. Running water, electricity, etc have nothing to do with skin pigment.

        And yeah Ive lived in many places not “built and maintained by Europeans”. Quite enjoyed it. People were fantastic, kind, loving, etc.

      • Sandy says:

        Actually I am a racist, and when our civilization collapses (read Jewrrod Diamond’s Collapse), you will rapidly discover where your interests lie – as humanity returns to a more tribal state of affairs. Fine, you’ve lived abroad as a rich American in the poor Third World; glad you enjoyed your Safari. You wouldn’t last one day in Cite Soleil or in Cidade de Deus.

        If you think any other civilization has a better track record than our own (taking into consideration the amount of energy we utilize), I’d like to hear about it.

      • Yossarian says:

        Sorry Sandy. No safari. I lived in pretty poor conditions. As for Rio (Cidade De Deus). I have lived in and next to the favelas and poorest regions in Brasil for months at a time.

        Great people.

    • Don Whitmire says:

      Yossarian,

      No one is saying that they know the intelligence of an individual. What we are saying is that there are scientificly proven racial differences in many traits, including average IQ. The average pit bull is more aggressive and dangerous than the average poodle. Because you believe that averages are meaningless, I challenge you to walk the talk, and buy a pit bull for your children?

      On average pit bulls are dangerous, and on average Africans have low intellegence.

      By the way, Guns, Germs and Steel had a great many errors in it. Diamons’s main thesis that Third Worlders never domesticated plants and animals because of bad “ecosystems” is total BS! I am a biodiversity scientists, and I can tell you for a fact that Africa had the most or second most potential for candidate-species domestication of all continents. Africa is icredably rich. Yet there was little “indigenious” domestication because Africa was inhabited by very low IQ people. Same goes for minerals and ores that were present on the surface all over Africa.

    • Pat says:

      What understanding IQ differences between groups allows one to do is understand that a disparity that is found between the races can not automatically be attributed to unjust or racist treatment by whites. Like the fireman’s test where no blacks passed in the New Haven, CT Supreme Court case for example. Or the constant blaming of poor quality teachers for black academic failure found nationwide. Were it not for the continued blaming of whites for black failure I wouldn’t give this subject much thought. Whites are not responsible for black failure for if they were, things would not always get worse for blacks where whites are absent they would improve. The best place on planet earth for a black person to live is amongst a white majority, the worst place, in a black majority nation. The worst place for a black to live in America, a high density black area. It’s time we all face racial differences honestly and stop this blaming of whites for black failure for as long as it continues whites are entitled to defend themselves from these unfounded accusations and the way of doing that is to show that the races do indeed differ biologically.

  65. Mike O says:

    Joseph says,
    Joseph, why don’t you say what ‘Joseph’ really said about non whites?

    Whites score higher on IQ test made by Blacks in Africa than Africans do. Go Figure.

    Blacks in America have been given trillions of dollars in special programs and Affirmative Action benefits, yet they perform poorly in all regards, especially when contrasted to Whites

  66. Ozzy says:

    you said, ” Let’s engage in “more speech” by calling the hotel and encouraging them to cancel the American Renaissance Conference.”

    So let me see if I got this straight.
    The way to have more free speech is to prevent free speech?

    very Orwellian

    War is Peace
    Freedom is Slavery
    and Diversity is strength

  67. Aaron says:

    So, the different human races spent tens of thousands of years evolving in different areas of the world. During this time, they evolved differences in bone structure, pigmentation, the heart, the liver, the eyes, the immune systems, and the blood. However, they didn’t evolve any differences in the brain.

    Thanks for clearing that up, Yossarian.

  68. The Eye says:

    Boy, all these people defending the White Supremacists are going to be so ticked when they find out that the Westin Hotel didn’t agree with them and kicked them out!

    http://tinyurl.com/noamren

    • Sandy says:

      PLEASE Keep crying Wolf! for one day (soon), the wolf will appear, and no one will listen to you.

      You have defeated but the weakest and most innocuous of your enemies. Amren channels would-be radicals into a safe and respectable mainstream conservatism. Continue to derail their efforts, and the people will have nothing but the most virulent organizations to join.

      But surely you sense it as well as I? The people are restless. Look at the Tea Parties – these are implicitly white. Soon they will be explicitly so. You cannot stop the trends that have already begun. You are a crumbling dam holding back a mighty river.

      • The Eye says:

        The problem with your theory is that the people in this world are not just white, and many of those that are have rejected the things AmRen supporters are about, Interesting that you use the word “dam” because if people like you continue as you do, you damn yourselves.

  69. P Schwartz says:

    “Boy, all these people defending the White Supremacists are going to be so ticked when ”

    The Eye,

    Did you read any of the papers cited above? Have you read any Amren archive article about psychometric research? East Asians (those of Chinese, Korean or Japanese ancestry) average above whites on iq.

    • Amethyst says:

      Nah, they just think that anyone who doesn’t believe in universal equality beez ray-ciss.

      I have some Amerind ancestry, very little, but I identify as white. I’m not afraid to admit that east Asians might be smarter than me. Way it is. What counts is doing the best you can with what you have, instead of whining about what you don’t have.

      As I’ve seen pointed out, if poverty breeds violence, then West Virginia should have a really high crime rate. But it’s very low–and its black population is very low. Go figure.

    • The Eye says:

      Okay, Asian supremacists.

  70. P Schwartz says:

    “I.Q. tests are meaningless also, because they are always rigged by one group or another to look for certain things. They do not measure overall mental abilities. They have to do with cultural expectations, etc., not the actual physiology of the brain.”

    Joseph,

    Actually, neuroscientists are identifying the neurobiology of intelligence, in relation to grey matter, myelination and cortical thickness.

    Neurobiology of Intelligence: Science and Ethics, (2004) Nature Reviews Neuroscience 5:1-13,

    See also, more recently by UCLA Neuroscientist Paul Thompson (reported in MIT Technology Review March 2009):

    “The UCLA researchers took the study a step further by comparing the white matter architecture of identical twins, who share almost all their DNA, and fraternal twins, who share only half. Results showed that the quality of the white matter is highly genetically determined, although the influence of genetics varies by brain area. According to the findings, about 85 percent of the variation in white matter in the parietal lobe, which is involved in mathematics, logic, and visual-spatial skills, can be attributed to genetics. But only about 45 percent of the variation in the temporal lobe, which plays a central role in learning and memory, appears to be inherited.”

  71. rhayat1 says:

    Yossarian wrote:

    “…bad behavior among groups with a predominant race and then correlating that to race. btw, read guns, germs, and steel.”

    I read it and he writes very little about race. All his arguments easily compliment race science rather than contradict it. Except where he claims that native New Guineans are genetically superior to other races in regards to I.Q. He actually claimed that twice in his book!

  72. Frank-Roman says:

    Winston Churchill said ‘the fascists of the future will be anti-fascists.’

    Only a fascist would say we are all one race, the human race.

    There is no human race. Humans are a species divided by races.

    Tariq, you and your boosters are sheeple headed for the shears, drones on a flight to nowhere.

  73. James Dunet says:

    The Eye:

    Your love for diversity is proped up by corporations who need the cheap labor. They can’t have a permenant labor force without massive amounts of low wage workers.

    For a website called The Mormon Worker, I would expect it’s defenders to be a lot more wary of corporate excuses (e.g. diversity is strength) for keeping wages down and populations disorganized through racial conflict.

    I know you say you will fight it, but you arn’t winning any real battles. Just look at what outsourcing is doing to American jobs. How about corporations and the campaign finance laws that were recently changed?

    Ah, but look over there! A suit and tie event that discusses racial differences and White displacement just got shut down. See, the unification of the workers is almost complete! Go diversity!

    Meanwhile, jobs still flee the country for less regulation and more profit in the bosses pocket. Those jobs that remain are ever more often given to the lowest bidders.

    You have been sold a bill of goods with the diversity agenda and the fruits of your deception are only just beginning to show.

    Wait until the American worker is so desperate that he accepts the same pay as the Mexican migrant. Then the “diversity is strength so support non-White immigration” deception will have done it’s intended job.

    Corporations 2, Workers 0.

    Human cattle is what you are!

    • The Eye says:

      If you want to talk about how corporations exploit low wage workers, than so be it, but don’t turn it into an argument for segregation because it could be argued that segregation was an advantage to the corporations once upon a time and more than likely would be today.

      • James Dunet says:

        My argument for segregation is based on past performance of the various racial groups. I would like to isolate the best and further develop their talents. (Measured by stability, creativity, intelligence and yes, personal gain.)

        Whites simply have a good track record for success. If you want to be mired in mediocracy then by all means, claim that oppression is the cause of most of the failures of non-Whites. It will probably win you some non-White friends.

        I choose a more realistic view of the world.

        As for corporations, they exploit the labor class by their very nature. The CEO is little more than a highly skilled worker who’s job is to maxamize profit at any cost. Often this means walking all over the laborors. This creates a big divide between management and labor and is why many skilled workers choose to unionize. Segregation or not, this dynamic remains the same.

        White birth rates will have to be brought up to pre-birth control levels for there to be a White working class of the future.

  74. P Schwartz says:

    “tw, read guns, germs, and steel.”

    Yossarian,

    The only problem with Guns Germs & Steel is that Diamond omits that genetic change accompanied cultural changes, particularly with the adoption of agriculture 10,000 or so years ago.

    This lead to a number of changes, for example a cluster of variants in serotonin receptors and transporters in Europeans, or a different version of a gene affecting the layers of the cerebral cortex (DAB1) that essentially everyone in China has but no one in Europe or Africa.

    Geoffrey Miller wrote about this recently in the Econmist:

    “We will also identify the many genes that create physical and mental differences across populations, and we will be able to estimate when those genes arose. Some of those differences probably occurred very recently, within recorded history. Gregory Cochran and Henry Harpending argued in “The 10,000 Year Explosion” that some human groups experienced a vastly accelerated rate of evolutionary change within the past few thousand years, benefiting from the new genetic diversity created within far larger populations, and in response to the new survival, social and reproductive challenges of agriculture, cities, divisions of labour and social classes. Others did not experience these changes until the past few hundred years when they were subject to contact, colonisation and, all too often, extermination.”

  75. Anti-PC says:

    Smacks of another case of White-Envy to me.

  76. AnalogMan says:

    Congratulations, Tariq, I see you shut down the American Renaissance conference. Or maybe not quite. There are other venues. Do you know what “Renaissance” means?

    And here’s another word you may not be familiar with: Pyrrhic. You just won a Pyrrhic victory.

    I’m going to shut you down, “Brother”.

  77. Don Whitmier says:

    Pat,
    You are absolutely correct! Building our entire society on a lie, causes untold damage. For the last 45 years we have literally turned out nation upside-down to attempt to close the “academic” and “performance” gaps. We have spent Billions of Dollars on education and affirmative action programs to uplift USA Africans (everything from Head-Start to Midnight Basketball to Free lunches and Afro-centric curriculum) — thousands of different programs attempted in tens of thousands of different schools and cities – almost all FAILURE. Every university and corporation in the nation has an expensive Office of Minority Affairs. Yet, the stubborn gap does not go away. The solution is to heap more blame on Whites and throw more money at Blacks.
    The resulting inefficiencies destroy the economy, the education system, and the work-place (i.e., California). In my state we spend 20 times the amount on very low IQ (grade F & D) students than we do on Gifted Students (straight-A), who, with just a little support could lead our nation’ future science and technology.
    Meanwhile, Blacks remain bitter, angry and violent, because we keep telling them that their failures are due to “White prejudice. “ Whites are to blame for all Black failures.
    Admitting the truth will not end the world. We need to admit that few Africans will become rocket scientists, and instead, build into our society jobs, careers, and opportunities for those cognitively challenged people. We can start by bringing back high paying manufacturing jobs to the USA and ending immigration (which is economic genocide for low-IQ African-Americans). Even very dumb citizens should have the right to earn a livable wage. That cannot happen if we continue to import wage-slaves from Mexico.

    • Pat says:

      I agree. It’s ironic that the liberals, out of their political correctness and desire not to offend blacks by clinging to this racial equality dogma can’t see the harm they are causing and mainly to blacks. For example, in mixed race schools they are very reluctant to group students by ability because the slow learner classes end up with a high percentage of minorities so instead they keep the students grouped by age where many minority students will fall behind and eventually drop out – all for the sake of political correctness. Whereas if they grouped students by ability instead of age and it took the black students an extra year or two to graduate they would be far better off than dropping out. Solutions to the 50 percent drop out rate for blacks can only come with an honest rational approach to the problem but unfortunately it seems we are determined to cling to the equality dogma for at least a few more generations until we will have to finally face this issue honestly. The excuse making by the liberals can only last for so long before everybody will eventually realize the truth.

  78. Tariq says:

    I just called the Westin Hotel and the person who answered the phone says that they have cancelled the AmRen Conference. I will follow up to make sure that they really did cancel it. If indeed the Westin has cancelled this white-power conference, then I commend them for standing against racism. I also would like to thank everyone who took a little time to call or email the hotel. It looks like your calls and emails have been effective. But I want to find out for sure that it really is cancelled before celebrating. Also, if the Westin is telling the truth, I’d like to find out if the white supremacists are going to try to trick another hotel into hosting them, and if so, which one.

    Also, I notice that some of you white-power loons are trying to use George Orwell to support your position. I hope that you realize that Orwell hated right-wing nuts like you just as much as he hated the Bolsheviks, and he actually fought side by side with anarchists and communists against right-wing fascists like you in the Spanish Civil War.

    • The Eye says:

      I don’t think the Westin is lying. Just like the Marriott Dulles which removed American Renaissance a few weeks before they moved to the Westin, it could put them in a VERY bad spot if they said they canceled a white supremacist conference and come to find out that they lied and actually allowed it to happen. Can you imagine the fallout from that, what other patrons would say about them covering for this kind of group? Westin is not going to jeopardize their reputation for Jared Taylor and his bunch, and Taylor can’t hold the hotel hostage with the free speech routine. He’s free to speaks somewhere else. He just needs to make sure the venue he chooses is willing to associate with him – as it is their freedom to decide whether or not they will.

  79. James Dunet says:

    The real fight takes place through economics and depending how bad things get, a big war to follow that. Do I cut X groups benefits here, and do I give the spoils to group Y or group Z over here? Who will rise up and how should I prepair?

    The powerful thing about racism is that you don’t have to be anywhere near the right wing to practice it. Only recent political fads make people associate it with the right wing.

    I talk to right wingers and left wingers in my real life a lot. When we talk politics I always talk money, jobs, and culture. Then I point out how the working and middle classes are getting screwed over. (I’m in the middle class myself.) Populism is the name of the game right now.

    Racism can only be defeated through race mixing and that ideology is not nearly as popular as the mainstream media trys to make it out to be.

    You have bet on the wrong horses with regards to race and conflict. Tell me, What do you really think will happen when Whites are a minority in their own countries?

    I think that once the truth of their displacement gets out through the internet, the tide will turn so quickly that it will make your head spin. Remember, they have done it before.

    • The Eye says:

      You live in a very small world, sir. The mainstream media doesn’t dictate everything that goes on in life. If it did, we wouldn’t have that race mixing it shows. Truth is, today’s generation is a lot more comfortable with people of other races and colors because it is no big deal in this day and age. It might be to you, but you are just some guy trash talking on the internet.

      Oh, by the way, in regards to your defense of segregation, let me make a quick point to you. Some folks on this thread has tried to turn the AmRen issue into a free speech thing, but here you are advocating stifling the freedoms of others. You had best recognize that the freedoms you allow your self you allow others, and the freedoms you disallow others you disallow yourself.

  80. P Schwartz says:

    Tariq,

    You keep stating white supremacists, but as I’ve mentioned above – Taylor and co rely on the latest psychometric research which shows Ashkenazi Jews and East Asians have the highest group iqs. This is predictive of academic attainment, and of course these groups are well represented in higher education and the professions.

    Joseph,

    You never responded to my post about the paper by UCLA’s Paul Thompson & Yale Psychologist Jeremey Gray setting out the neurobiological basis for intelligence, and that this is significantly heritable (about 40%-80% of variation between individuals in a population is due to differences in genes).

  81. Irish says:

    Thanks for working together with the Marxists and anti-Western, anti-American, anti-Christian, anti-Mormon, and yes anti-white lunatics to ensure that not a peep of dissent is heard about the Third World-ization of America. Rest assured, they will have no gratitude toward you for this fratricidal act. They will give you no mercy or respite. Lenin talked of “useful idiots” in the West who would help him carry out his agenda, and there were plenty during the Cold War. Unfortunately there are plenty more now helping the new Marxists, who care more about culture and race than they do economics.

  82. Irish says:

    What I have found interesting in examining history is that the whites who are most judgmentally PC and smugly left-wing on race are the ones from areas with the lowest proportion of non-whites.

    Thus Sweden’s Gunnar Myrdal could write “An American Dilemma”. Only slightly less extreme were Americans from heavily white areas, such as Sen. Hubert Humphrey. Those from the border South (Kentucky, Virginia) took a firmer line, while those from the heavily black Deep South (Mississippi, South Carolina) were by US standards zealous.

    But even they took a back seat to Brazil’s whites (for a long time anyway), who in turn were overshadowed by South Africa’s. And even South Africa’s whites, outnumbered 7 or 8 to 1, were uncomfortable with their kin in Rhodesia, who took the toughest line of all, being only about 1% of the population.

    The more non-whites one is surrounded by, the more one’s nose is rubbed in the reality of race, the more clear and illusion-free one’s outlook is. To this day, lily-white Vermont and Oregon are insufferable on this issue, and it’s clear that many white Mormons from Utah are just as foolishly, suicidally, naive.

    What’s grimly amusing is that Swedes and Frenchmen, having imported millions of nonwhites to one-up us and each other in being more eager to show their ignorance of racial reality, no longer are quite so smug in lecturing us about our racial problems. With gang-rapes of ethnically Swedish women by roving packs of blacks and Muslims now a hushed-up but widely known and feared fact of life, with hundreds of cars in France each night set afire by Muslim and black “youths”, with once-empty jails filled to bursting with stupid, violent, superstitious, ineducable racial aliens, all of a sudden our racial problems no longer seem quite so much the result of some terrible flaw on our part.

  83. Julian says:

    Long live the men of the West.
    Down with Jewish supremacism, anti-White hate, and the destruction of the wonderful European-created nations.

  84. SUNNofaB.C.Rich says:

    Tariq, in case you didn’t notice, Animal Farm and 1984 were influenced by Orwells personal experiences with communists… So don’t think youre exempt from “Orwellian” attributes…

    As for “diversity is strength” being touted as “Orwellian” double-speak that’s crap… Trying to use Orwell to support basic fascist ideas is ironically “Orwellian” itself…

    As for the racists like Sandy, good luck with your “mighty river tribe” of white nerds in camouflage pants… Yeah, good luck with that…

    • The Eye says:

      Tariq did indeed note that: “I hope that you realize that Orwell hated right-wing nuts like you just as much as he hated the Bolsheviks, and he actually fought side by side with anarchists and communists against right-wing fascists like you in the Spanish Civil War.”

  85. Forest Simmons says:

    From what I have read over the years, nutritional status of the mother during child bearing years, and quality of nutrition during infancy and childhood have more to do with mental development than genes and all other environmental factors combined.

    Our eforts should be in maximizing the potential of each child of God, not in worrying about who has greater IQ.

    What if God gave up on us because of our low IQ’s compare to His or those on some other planet?

    We are all beggars>

  86. Tariq says:

    Sunn of a B.C Rich,
    When will you ever learn that you need to do some actual reading before you start to pretend that you know about anything? How often must I exhort you to read books and educate yourself? Animal Farm is about the Russian Revolution and the Bolshevik betrayal of the revolution. However, it has more universal insights as to how authoritarianism works anywhere. 1984 is about totalitarianism in general, left or right. In Europe, left wing totalitarianism rose in the form of Bolshevism, and right wing totalitarianism rose in the form of the Nazis in Germany and the fascists in Italy and Spain. Orwell despised them all. But Orwell was smart enough to distinguish between different forms of socialism, and even though he despised the Bolsheviks, he still referred to himself as a socialist, only his brand of socialism was far more democratic and respectful of the individual than the authoritarian socialism of Lenin or Stalin. He never did call himself an anarchist, but he expressed admiration for the Spanish anarchists who fought against fascism in Spain and he said that the ideals of the anarchists were the only thing worth fighting for, and his ideas about authority were far more similar to the ideas of the anarchists than they were to any other camp, right or left. He went to Spain to write about the Spanish Civil War, but he was so impressed with the libertarian atmosphere surrounding the communists and anarchist antifascists that he decided to join them. He was shot through the neck while fighting right-wing fascists, but he lived to tell the tale. Read his book Homage to Catalonia and you might learn something more than the bogus standardized history you just spouted out. Let me guess, you’ve never read 1984 but you read about it on Wikipedia. While Orwell can’t honestly be placed neatly into any political category, (he was a very independent-minded person, after all) Orwell has more in common with anarchists and socialists than he does with white supremacists or republicans or democrats. He was also a strong opponent of imperialist war, while you on the other hand have defended Bush’s imperialist war many times (now Obama’s imperialist war). It never ceases to amaze me that right-wingers try to use Orwell to further their agenda, when Orwell spent many hours of his life criticizing right-wing ideology. Yes, he was against Bolshevism, but so was Emma Goldman, and Alexander Berkman, and pretty much every anarchist who lived while the Bolsheviks were in power. Being anti-Bolshevik doesn’t automatically make a person right-wing any more than being anti-Hitler automatically makes a person left wing. But please do attempt to explain what “Orwellian Attributes” you think I am “not exempt from”. Make sure you have some quotes from Wikipedia to back up your claim, and don’t forget to call me a hajji and threaten to beat me up, just so I know that you haven’t changed since you last posted comments.

    • Obviousman says:

      Tardiq,

      First, try using paragraph breaks sometime. People may actually read more of what you write. I personally only got through the first few sentences.

      You say Hitler was right wing, but wasn’t he left wing?

      He was a socialist.

      His party was called the National Socialist Party.

      He believed in the state having control of the means of production. He not only wrote that in his stupid book, he lived it.

      He was against private gun and land ownership.

      He was pro-abortion, especially for the mentally handicapped.

      Hell, he was a vegetarian and an avid anti-smoker.

      Historian geeks like to go off on all the different forms of collectivism and show how smart they are. But whether it is communism, fascism, socialism, community organizing, etc. – it’s all about a government with more reach than it deserves. It’s all the same and ends in tragedy.

      Currently, the right wing is for smaller government and basic rights such as freedom of association and freedom of speech. These are good things.

      Though I am a moderate and vote both Dem and Rep, right now the Dems have me the most scared, the 8 years before that, it was the other side. We Americans can’t seem to win with our election choices.

      That being said –

      If a bunch of racist want to meet and talk about how awesome their group is and how every other group is the cause of their problems that is their basic right as an American.

      For you to try to shut them down or shout them down, is a basic form of fascism. You’re only making them look like victims and the ones being repressed.

      You Tardiq, are the obvious fascist in this little story and worse, you’re making them look like victims, which goes along with their overall theme.

      A big round of applause for the great Tardiq! He’s helping white supremacist further their cause and strengthen their resolve.

      Bravo!

      They couldn’t do it without self righteous useful idiots, like yourself, helping prove their point.

      • The Eye says:

        Nothing funnier than the right wing trying to absolve themselves of all sin. You try calling Hitler a left winger in Europe you would be laughed at by the right wingers there.

  87. Jack Mormon says:

    I find it unconscionable that a blog calling itself “Mormon” would promote a vigilante campaign against a group like American Renaissance merely because they think differently than we do. Our legacy as a Church does not permit us that luxury.

    Have you forgotten that our forebears were recipients of this type of treatment? Over 160 years ago, our forebears were expelled from Missouri and Illinois because of the spirit of vigilantiism.

    Those of you who approve of these tactics are no different than Satan himself. Of course, it was predicted that in the latter days, even the very elect would be deceived. This blog fulfills that prophecy.

    • The Eye says:

      Have you forgotten that is was the type of people that American Renaissance caters to that expelled you? No, this isn’t vigilantism. This is responsible citizenry.

  88. Pat says:

    How does any person, Mormon or otherwise who believes (with no proof what so ever) that there is this invisible supernatural being living in the sky watching them and keeping track of their personal behaviors accuse others of believing in pseudo-science? What right do you have? You are hypocrites who clearly just believe in what ever appeals to you with no concern at all for facts or evidence and you just don’t like those of us who are rational because we remind you of the lie you live. There is plenty of evidence to support a belief in racial differences in IQ, there is zero evidence for anything supernatural so if you are going to critique others beliefs as foolish you at least need to eliminate your own foolish unsupported beliefs first.

  89. Forest Simmons says:

    King Benjamin advised us to always remember our own nothingness. We all have infinitesimal IQ compared to God, and we see a lot of evidence of that all around. Scientists say that hydrogen is the most abundant substance in the universe. Nibley opined that stupidity was even more abundant than hydrogen.

    The Zoramites enjoyed getting together and bragging about how much more blessed they were than everybody else, but never talked about their responsibility to use their resources to bless the less fortunate.

    Where much is given much is required. I know that smacks of “noblesse oblige,’ and “white man’s burden,” but The Book of Mormon makes clear that the “Gentiles” (people of Western European heritage) would be highly favored (at leat for a while) by having first chance at the restored gospel, along with possession of the promised land, a land of freedom, liberty, and prosperity.

    However, when the day came that they were lifted up in their pride above all of the nations of the earth and started to reject the fulness of the gospel, they would receive their comeuppance. The most succinct summary of this is in chapters 16, 20, and 21 of the book of 3rd Nephi.

    These might be good topics for LDS people to broach at the conference. If they do it in the right spirit, perhaps something good can come of it. In any case, I trust that LDS attendees will resist any Zoramite mindset, should such a mindset become evident.

    Of course, there were also humble Zoramites, the workers that had built the towers that only the more affluent were allowed to pray from. I hope that I am not perceived to be a Zoramite basher!

  90. SUNNofaB.C.Rich says:

    1. Tariq thinks he has the market cornered on the use of the word “Orwellian” because Orwell hated the fascists more than the hard core communists and of course anybody that doesn’t agree or like Tariq is a fascist and therefore he is deeply offended by them using the word “Orwellian”. Tariq likes the whole left/right thing because it’s simple so I pointed out that a lot of Orwells criticisms were of the left (which is where Tariq is.)

    2. Spanish civil war, anarchists were pretty much useless. Like you.

    3. I’m not a big fan of the war actually, never said I was (you like to assume a lot, dude). What annoyed me about your anti-military rant was the childishness and superficiality of it.

    4. Somebody pointed out that you called for more speech by trying to shut people up and called it Orwellian. They might be right.

    5. Funny how thinking you’re a DB makes me so right wing. Are you a Hajji? I didn’t realize you had made the pilgrimage to Mecca, congratulations.
    I posed a hypothetical situation involving violence to you to clarify some discrepancies in your ranting… big deal.

    6. Hey, you never answered me if you are currently using the G.I. Bill or not… Just wanted to see how much of an anarchist you really are, thats all.

  91. The Eye says:

    The latest is they have a new venue – but will tell their attendees 48 hours beforehand where it is.

  92. Tariq says:

    No, the nazis were right-wing extremists. Just to make it easy for you to understand, remember this; socialists are left-wing, national socialists are right-wing. It amazes me that you don’t know this. One of Hitler’s first actions was to shut down the communist party in Germany and either execute leftists or put them in work camps. Hitler despised Marxism and wanted to stamp it out completely. Hitler loved capitalist enterprise and even invited U.S. corporations to set up camp in Germany. For example, Henry Ford, a paragon of capitalism, had a Ford plant in Germany where he built tanks for the Nazis. In fact, just as an aside; after WWII, Henry Ford sued the U.S. government for bombing his plant in Germany, and he won the case. So U.S. taxpayers had to repay Henry Ford for his destroyed Nazi tank-building facility. I’m not going to go through an entire history 101 lesson with you, but I do encourage you to do some reading of actual books written by respectable historians. As for the claim that the right-wing today is for smaller government and basic rights, I have to ask, on what planet is that true? The right-wing of today is behind the patriot act, the green scare, two idiotic wars, torture, increased government surveillance of its own citizens, violent raids on immigrants, new gigantic government agencies (such as the department of Homeland (fatherland) security, and on and on and on. Sadly, the democrats have moved further and further to the right over the years so that they have done nothing to stop the madness of the Bush years and they have actually continued most of Bush’s worst policies. Anyway, be careful of historical ignorance. You’re in danger of sounding like the crazies at town-hall meetings who were comparing Obama to Hitler because Obama dared to suggest that we need health-care reform. As though health-care is what defined the Nazis. You may as well say, “Nazis drank water, and leftists drink water too, therefore the Nazis were leftists.” In fact, it was communist Russia that kept the Nazis from completely overrunning Europe.

    • Obviousman says:

      I would have read your posts but you refuse to use paragraphs.

      Whether you call Hitler right wing or left wing, it doesn’t matter. Currently, what is called the left wing has more in common with Hitler than the right wing.

      I’m a Democrat, but the Democrats have become very fascist at this point. As if we didn’t have to suffer enough under Bush.

      Currently, the right wing has rapidly become in line with traditional conservatism and has more in common with Goldwater than Bush.

      Anyways, back to the point.

      You’re a self righteous fascist. You want to shout down and shutdown people you disagree with. You are overly aggressive, which means you’re potentially dangerous.

      Which is to say –

      You doth protest too much.

      I bet you’re a closet racist. I mean you are a Mormon.

  93. SUNNofaB.C.Rich says:

    the whole left/right thing is a super simplified way to look at it. Actually what happened in WWII was the nazis DID overrun Europe and the U.S. and the brits stopped the Russians from overrunning it on the rebound. Communist cheerleader.

  94. SUNNofaB.C.Rich says:

    That’s in “actual books” by “respectable historians”

  95. SUNNofaB.C.Rich says:

    oh yeah…. Ever heard of GAZ? A soviet/Ford product.

  96. Tariq says:

    It seems that the Westin did indeed cancel its agreement to host the AmRen white-power conference. This is very good news for anti-racists. Originally AmRen was scheduled to have this year’s conference at the Dulles Marriott, but Marriott canceled them after finding out what American Renaissance is really all about. So the white supremacists used a cover name to get the Dulles Westin Hotel to host them, but, after finding out the truth about who these AmRen folks really are (as a result of the many phone calls and emails the Westin received), the Westin has now cancelled as well. Now Jared Taylor and his racist followers are scrambling to find somewhere else to hold their conference. I am glad to see that Jared Taylor’s attempts to make his vile ideas seem respectable and mainstream are failing. Joseph had it right:
    “You fascists are bound to lose!”

  97. Kate says:

    What the MW v. White-Supremacy smackdown?

  98. Obviousman says:

    Well done Tardiq, well done.

    You have no idea how much you have helped the racist. You really don’t.

    I can only think you must be one of them. Helping promote the myth that they’re victims of oppression.

    You said you stirred up a bunch of rattlesnakes. You seemed to be proud of this fact. You are a fool pure and simple. Thanks for stirring them up. Now, like every rattlesnake charmer/handler, prepare to be bitten.

    Why are you helping them seem like victims? What does it do for you? What have they given you?

    You are the fascist. You are the one trying to shutdown others right to Freedom of Assembly. Are you for real? Do you think you are helping those of us who aren’t white or who are multiple races?

    The real kicker is that your whole attack is coming from Mormonism. Of all “religions” to attack racist. You really take the cake.

    I wish all racist white, brown, black, yellow, ect people could have their little pure communities and leave the rest of us alone. I wish you could go with them. I think you’re one of them. That’s why you’re so aggressive. This whole thing is how you atone for your own dark heart.

    Let people speak their mind. If you suppress speech, those being suppressed become martyrs and heroes for their cause. You make more people aware of them than would have already have been.

    That’s why I think you’re a phony. That’s why I think you’re one of them. That and you’re a Mormon. A white supremacist organization.

    How do you square the two anyways Tard? Your involvement with a racist church and your indirect aid to racists?

    If you’re for real, please stop “helping”. If you help anymore, those of us that aren’t white as your mormon self are doomed.

    • The Eye says:

      Obviousman’s routine is always the most laughable when it comes up: someone Black, Hispanic, Jewish etc. complaining that you are going after white racists because it means more trouble. Tariq, I’m Black. I oppose this conference. Obviousman cannot and will not speak for me, and is going to find himself mighty pained as things go on if he truly feels this way.

      • Obviousman says:

        I am for the Freedom of Speech and the Right to Peacefully Assemble.

        These 2 particular rights lead to Civil Rights for blacks. Did they not?

        You do not want these rights taken from anyone. They are necessary for the overall health and liberty of the Republic.

        You can oppose the message of this conference, but not the right for this conference to be held.

        If you use force, intimidation, and other such tactics to prevent people who you disagree with from getting together to speak their mind –

        You are a fascist.

        Worse, you are helping make the case of the White Supremacist when they scream they are being oppressed – because they are.

        White Supremacist may be an extreme minority now, and may be able to be pushed around, but their numbers are growing and crap like this sends them new members.

        Yes it does.

        Blacks are a tiny minority in the US. I believe they are getting smaller in overall racial percentage, or their numbers have stopped growing. Here, I just did a quick Google search. Your group is between 11-14 percent of the population.

        Being part of such a small minority, you should be for the right of other minority opinions to be heard.

        One day the shoe might be back on the other foot. People change their minds all the time. With all the genetic research coming out and the IQ research everyone is talking about here, don’t be surprised if the majority of whites take the easy way out and decide that blacks aren’t equal to whites and should be treated as such.

        You’re gonna want your minority opinion to be heard then. You’re gonna want the right for people to be able to peacefully assemble and speak their minds then.

        Philosophies come and go like fashion. Unfortunately, the idea of equality comes and goes. We must work together to make sure we create an environment where people are allowed to meet and speak their mind.

        Respecting each others basic freedoms, yes – including these racists, is the best way to ensure the preservation of our own.

      • The Eye says:

        Don’t use that “freedom of speech” and “freedom to assemble” copout routine with me. It was the people like the folks at the conference – and in some cases THE folks at the conference who fought against our civil rights in the sixties, and they still do today. And I would watch who’s calling who a fascist. If you know so much about fascism and have a problem with it, you should not have any problem with anyone opposing a conference such as this.

  99. Tariq says:

    I haven’t used “force or intimidation or other such tactics” to prevent anyone from speaking. But why would you deny a private enterprise the right to decide who they will or will not host on their own property? I thought you right-wing guys were all for property rights.

  100. Obviousman says:

    Freedom of Speech and Assembly aren’t cop outs. They’re our most important freedoms.

    You are a fascist if you deny these rights to others. That’s all I’m saying and it is the truth.

    Tardiq, your group did to use threat of force and intimidation. I called the hotel. They were afraid of violence from the protesters – not the conference goers.

    I was told that they got a lot of calls that they would have trouble, even after the conference, if they allowed people to assemble there.

    That’s right from the hotel desk.

    I’m not “right wing”. I’m a registered Democrat who has become disturbed by the tendency of those on the left to scream at those they disagree with. To rush stages, throw pies, when they don’t like what someone else has to say. To call hotels and make threats when they don’t like other people exercising their right to assemble.

    It is a very big world and people are going to have different opinions. We must be mature enough to handle this and respect others rights…

    If we want our own rights respected.

    Things change. Those who were on top at one period in history find their way at the bottom at some other point. By holding strong and respecting the most fundamental rights we each have we create a better future for all.

    More importantly, you’re just making them stronger by feeding their fantasies of oppression by giving them a very REAL incident to point to. This will make them militant and increase their numbers.

    They could have threatened a law suit with the hotel and probably have won. The hotel manager said they took it well and didn’t make a fuss. Which I find very strange.

    They wanted you to do what you did. You’re helping them.

    Good job.

    Anyways, you win, I give up. Yes trampling on other people’s rights is just fine when it suits you. It doesn’t make you come across as immature and dangerous. You’re not making the other side look better. You do not make your side look bad at all. Us older Liberals aren’t cringing watching you guys acting like the folks we stood up to in the 60s.

    Well done, you’ve brought back old memories, but probably not in the way you meant.

    Please stop helping.

    Have a nice day.

  101. Tariq says:

    My “group”? I don’t have a group, and if I did have a group, which I don’t, we certainly wouldn’t use force or intimidation. Nice try though. White supremacists, on the other hand, have a long history of using force and intimidation in this country. And I certainly never threatened the hotel, nor did I encourage anyone else to threaten the hotel. The “hotel desk” told me that they were afraid of violence from the neo-nazis who would be staying in the hotel, especially because many of the hotel employees are not white, and don’t feel safe working in a place that is full of people who have a history of violence against people of color. The “hotel desk” also said that they don’t want their hotel to be associated with hate groups.

    This will “make them militant”? Regular AmRen conference attendees like the Keystone State Skinheads and neo-nazis from Stormfront already are militant. And if you pay attention to white-power groups over the last 20 years, you will see that when they are confronted and exposed, their numbers actually decrease and their groups become weaker. It’s when you ignore them and allow them to spread their message unchallenged, or you allow them to achieve their goal of being treated like respectable, mainstream intellectuals that their numbers grow. They are like worms, that shrivel up and die when you shine some sunlight on them, although real worms are far more useful to the world than white-power slime. But I suspect that you already know that and that’s why you are trying so hard to get people like me to ignore them. These white-power guys are cowards at heart, and when they are confronted and exposed, it doesn’t make them stronger, it makes them flee. The best way to help the cause of white supremacists is to treat them like they are legitimate intellectuals. They are nazi trash and ought to be treated accordingly. And the Dulles Marriott and the Westin both did the right thing by refusing to give nazi trash a welcome mat in their hotels.
    I seriously doubt that you are a liberal like you claim to be. You sound alot more like a guy who is mad that his white-power conference is having a hard time finding a hotel stink up. I don’t know who you think you’re fooling.

  102. Obviousman says:

    I’m a very old man is who I am. If you live long enough you see some pretty “trippy” things.

    I am retired. I use to write for TV and some movies. Though I would call myself a liberal, the meaning of that word has changed a lot over my life time.

    I marched in protest a lot in the 60s. I liked the large marches best. I was always frightened at the small ones. You felt more exposed.

    Yes, I have attended one of their conferences. Not for the reason of most of the other protesters, but there were other people there like me. Wanting to know what we were up against this time around.

    I have followed Taylor’s career from early on. The new packaging they have wrapped themselves in has me concerned. As does the fact that unlike the late 70s and 80s they are not “trash” anymore. These are professionals, private business owners, smart, respectable people. The kind of racist I originally went up against in the mid 50s to late 60s. I am 84 – years young this September.

    I have a natural aversion to people who wear masks and yell from a few experiences of organizing protests last century. To the right of where I entered the conference there was a crowd of very troubled people screaming and yelling, a bunch with masks. They were obviously unhinged and the cameras were on them.

    Imagine what the video must have been like to a 3rd person. People in suits walking into a room surrounded by these raving lunatics.

    Look son, no one has every given a damn about black people. Hell, we believe we got public opinion on our side not because blacks deserved equality, but Americans hate to see people forcibly shutdown.

    The horrible dark truth about human nature is what it is. Looking back, it was the water hoses, the dogs, the beatings, and the freaks running around in white hoods that got public opinion on our side. Not because it was the right and just thing to do to give blacks equality.

    I am watching what I worked a lifetime on being torn down be immature fools.

    No one likes fascist actions. The racists have repackaged themselves as victims just trying to get together to talk about the white man’s plight and it is working.

    People see this type of thing and they will turn on you. It’s as simple as that.

    I’ve been a little mean spirited to you from my first post on, I apologize. That was wrong of me. Your heart is in the right place, but they’re playing you.

    They need you to keep shutting them down.

    You say you don’t belong to any group, but you do. You are one of the protesters are you not? I thought you were the guy who put this page together. I guess I wouldn’t know.

    The hotel is not afraid of their guests. Both the manager and the person at the front desk said they received threats from the protesters and that’s why they’re closing the conference down. I don’t know why you’re claiming different.

    You really want to do something that will make a difference? Challenge Taylor to a debate and air it on YouTube. If I wasn’t so old and slow, I would.

    You say they shrivel when the light is shined on them, I agree. It doesn’t though when you shut them down. It hides them, suppresses and represses them.

    If you really are against fascism and for freedom, then challenge Taylor to a debate and show the world how bankrupt his ideas are.

    By using intimidation tactics on the hotel, you come across as well, I don’t mean this as a put down, I’m expressing how it comes across – not calling you a name…

    You come across as a coward. Pure and simple.

    Do you realize how many meetings we had canceled on us back in the 60s? Well, imagine the 50s. NO ONE wanted to hear the truth then.

    I always have considered the people who wouldn’t let us speak our minds as cowards. Hated them for it. They refused to debate openly.

    To this day, it has always driven me up the wall when people won’t debate something openly and let people speak their minds.

    Please stop giving these people what they want. Debate Taylor and finish him in an open forum. You will obviously win. His ideas are old and tired, just slightly repackaged.

    Please end your current tactics. They will only backfire. It’s not about the subject matter, it is how the outside perceives it.

  103. The Eye says:

    Actually, let me extend my own apologies. If you have been in the game this long, someone literally half your age needs to listen. Still, I must respectfully say that in light of what you just posted, you have gotten more than a little frustrated. I say don’t be. The reason why we approach things the way we do is because people like you have already had the debates and arguments. And you have won them. We are not dealing with people who are trying to have an honest debate with the opposition anymore. As you said, we would win. They know that, and they know why. The next best thing is to frame themselves in a way that looks palatable to the general public. They can’t do it the old way anymore, so they eschew a lot of the old trappings of their beliefs. So they will not say they are racists for example, but rather “race realists” or “racialists”. You know who calls himself a racialist? Glenn Beck!

    This is what brings me to my own frustrations. They will not discuss their ideals and beliefs, but rather talk around them, and deflect from the true concerns. One of the things that is coming up now is that there is no real definition of the word “racism”. Okay, if that’s the case, what difference does it make? Whatever you want to call what happened to us as black people for 400 years should not have happened and will not happen again if we have anything to say about it.

    So if we are not having a real debate that means we are dealing with people who really do not want to talk but rather find some way to undercut the freedoms we all enjoy no matter what. If that’s the case, they have to be marginalized themselves. There is no other option. That is what we keep saying we go overseas to fight wars for, yet here we are with a group of people who actually DO say they hate us for our freedom, and we do nothing! We go on like this, and we will regret it. Notice I didn’t say live to regret it, and trust me when I say that isn’t an exaggeration. I have seen too many people die at the hands of people like this. They served their notice. Let’s serve ours on them.

  104. Tariq says:

    Jeffrey Imm of R.E.A.L. Organization (a human rights group that opposes AmRen) did take Jared Taylor up on a challenge to debate, and Taylor backed down, giving some silly excuse. I, however, feel that these issues have already been debated more than enough, and that white supremacist ideology has already lost the debate. White supremacist ideas are not to be debated, they are simply to be rejected as absurd. You say that I should “finish him in an open forum”. His ideas already have been finished in countless open forums. To debate such people any more is to pretend that their ideas have yet to be refuted. They’ve already been refuted more than enough.

    Do I have to debate every crazy person that comes my way? What if a guy declared that there are unicorns on the moon? Would I have to debate him to prove him wrong? What if some dude said that black people in the south should be enslaved again? Do I have to challenge him to a debate in order to demonstrate to the public that he is wrong? Is it ever ok to simply say, no, your ideas are ridiculous and don’t deserve the dignity of a debate? Engaging racists in a debate supposes that they have some legitimate point of view that deserves an equal hearing. Their point of view already got more than its share of space, and deserves no more.

    For the majority of this country’s history, white supremacists have controlled the government, big business interests, and the media. They’ve had more than ample opportunity to make their case. Now the time for debate is long over. Now is the time to simply tell these suit and tie white-power loons to bug off.

    I don’t know who “the protesters” are that you are referring to, but it isn’t me. I have not called for anyone to protest, and I don’t wear a mask. I am not the person who put this site up and I don’t speak for anyone other than myself. I don’t know the views of everyone who writes on Mormon Worker, but I am sure that none of them are the people you refer to as wearing masks and intimidating hotel employees. Perhaps you have jumped to conclusions.

    I called for people to inform the hotel about the true nature of what the “New Century Foundation Conference” is, because I know that AmRen didn’t tell the hotel that it actually is a white supremacist conference. I called for people to encourage the hotel to stand against racism by refusing to host white supremacist conferences; but I did not call on anyone to threaten, bully, force, or in any way try to coerce the hotel into cancelling the conference. I said that I respect the hotel’s right to host whoever they want to host, but that I also respect their right to refuse to host anyone they don’t want to host. If anyone did threaten the hotel, then they did that completely seperate from me.

    Many groups called for the Westin to refuse to host AmRen, including human rights groups, labor unions, and anti-fascist groups. I don’t know of any that called for anyone to threaten the hotel and I have not heard of any threats to the hotel. When I called the hotel to check that the conference really was cancelled, the person I spoke with said nothing about threats, and expressed a strong dislike for white supremacists, and a concern for the safety of the many hotel employees who are not white. He said that the Westin does not want to be associated with racists.

    If Jared Taylor really does want his conference to be shut down so that he can play the role of victim, then why is he keeping the new location of the conference a secret? From what I hear, now that he is having such a hard time securing a place for his conference, he is not going to tell anyone where it is to be held until 48 hours before the conference. If he truly does want the conference to be protested and shut down, then he would make sure that anti-racist activists know about it as far in advance as possible.

    He doesn’t want to be protested or shut down. No reasonable people will have any sympathy for him and he knows it; especially in an area as racially and ethnically diverse as Northern Virginia. When most people in Northern Virginia hear that neo-nazis and ex-klansmen got turned down by a hotel, they say, “good riddance”.

    White power groups getting turned down by a hotel is not at all comparable to black people demonstrating for civil rights in the 60s getting beaten by police, sprayed with high-power water hoses, and bitten by dogs. Let’s get some perspective here. No one has violated Jared Taylor’s rights. No one has forced him to shut up. No one is keeping him from speaking his mind. He hasn’t been arrested. He hasn’t been bullied. He’s simply been turned down by a couple of hotels that don’t want to be associated with racists.

    Don’t call me “son”. I’m not your son and I can’t stand when old men talk down to me.

  105. Centurian says:

    Work you liberal fascist pigs, you are the new Nazi party. Destroying liberty, free speech, and the right to assemble. I hope you know your oppression will only strengthen their resolve and win them sympathy.

    Of all the ignorant people of the earth, according to religion, Mormons are certainly the worst. I laugh at the idiotic cult that Joseph Smith created, and that you waste your time on his lies. Not a shred of evidence but a mountain of truth against it for LDS INC.

  106. SUNNofaB.C.Rich says:

    perhaps Anarcho-communists vs. white supremacists is a good-bad axis that most people find inaccesible…. crazies vs. crazies… Oh, and on second thought, maybe you really should work on being likeable on some basic level… I don’t know who I like less, white supremacists or you…

  107. Tariq says:

    Considering the fact that you think its ok to call Middle-Easterners and South Asians “hajjis”, and then kill them in the name of Uncle Sam, I think you probably dislike me more than you dislike white supremacists.

  108. Obviousman says:

    “I don’t know who “the protesters” are that you are referring to, but it isn’t me. I have not called for anyone to protest, and I don’t wear a mask. I am not the person who put this site up and I don’t speak for anyone other than myself.”

    Unfortunately you’ll find that “guilt by association” makes the world go around. You’re on the same side. Right or wrong, you will be grouped together. I thought you were with them by the aggression you are displaying here on this page. I am sorry.

    “Don’t call me “son”. I’m not your son and I can’t stand when old men talk down to me.”

    When you’re this much older than most people you know, it’s a natural expression. No one is talking down to you, son, I’m just trying to reason with you.

    Show some respect for your elders and know they have experienced more than you. I’m not claiming to be smarter, just a lot more experienced.

    Everyone seems like a kid to me. My youngest daughter just turned 60. I have a grand kid in their 40s. One of my great grand kids just got married. I figure if I make it another year, I’ll actually live to meet my great GREAT grand kid.

    You shouldn’t take it so negatively when someone older seems to “talk down to you”. You’ll do the same when you’re older than dirt. Older men will always talk down to youngsters. If that bothers you, you’re going to be frustrated every time you meet someone more experienced in life – which is to say “old”. You just show an extreme level of immaturity when you get angry about it. You reveal your lack of experience in life.

    Understand, you still have a lot of growing up to do. Those who have already been through it can see where you are and probably where you are going. It is not an attack, but an attempt to help you move from crawling to walking.

    I thought you were Imm. The person who sent me the link to this site said you were. My biggest apologies. They made a large assumption and now I’m the horses “ASS”. I have a very very large monitor with GIANT text and I still have trouble making things out. I miss the details =)

    Still, it explains a lot. I thought you were incredibly immature for someone Imm’s age and I was surprised to find he was a mormon and running this page. I guess this old geezer will have to do his own fact checking and not leave it to his 19 year old assistant. Who is overall great, by the way. I’m very lucky to have his help especially when it comes to “younging up” my writing for the modern world.

    To clear up something you have wrong, Imm backed out of the debate, not the other way around. I’m still angry at him for it. He makes us look bad.

    “Do I have to debate every crazy person that comes my way? What if a guy declared that there are unicorns on the moon?”

    Of course you don’t, but you must allow them to speak their mind. That is all I’m saying. And this isn’t unicorns though is it? This is something that nearly everyone, when I grew up and through most of my adult life (and THOUSANDS of years prior), believed. MOST of the world still believes this – from my understanding. Maybe things have changed out there. I haven’t traveled internationally in 20 years.

    Believing that blacks are inferior is one of the oldest of ideas.

    Please forgive me for entering into an argument with you. I will leave you alone. Your heart seems to be in the right place. Once you mature and learn to calm yourself and respect others and your place in this world, you may yet do some good in this world.

    Mr. Eye,

    I want to try and connect with you. Since you are black, you are the one who has the most to loose. I also want to be honest with you. I’m going to tell you something about me and the early Civil Rights movement that isn’t pretty. A lot of the stuff I’m about to say I believe you can clear with any black man over the age of 60.

    When I started getting involved with the movement long before it was a movement, I believed black people were inferior in mental abilities to whites. So did, to my understanding of the world at the time, everybody else – including blacks. I saw black equality the same way we white men saw female equality. You may not be our equals in ability, but you deserve equality in treatment by society. In other words, when the “movement” started, we were all white supremacist (the blacks as well), but some of us believed blacks deserved equality before society, the government, and the law.

    The reason we went to help the blacks, was because we didn’t think they were capable of doing it themselves.

    Maybe the reason I don’t get so angered by the racists is that for all intents and purposes, I was one. There is no way that I can imagine what it must be like for a black man to have been born after the mid 60s when this idea began to finally change. How much raw anger you must feel. I can’t even get my mind around it. On some level, it would be insulting to pretend I can get were you’re coming from. I can’t.

    We did not win Civil Rights for blacks because people felt blacks were equals to whites. We didn’t even win it because people wanted blacks to be treated as equals by society. You want to know why those of us that marched from the beginning believe we won?

    Because people grew to dislike the other side.

    I want to be as clear as possible as I can with you. If no one would have tried to shut us down over and over again, we wouldn’t have had the anger and indignation to push on. The resistance made us stronger. If it wasn’t for it getting worse – from the clubbing, to the hoses, to the dogs, then finally – the murders; I firmly believe that blacks would still not have Civil Rights to this day.

    If they would have just left us alone, nothing would have changed because people would have ignored us. People like the status quo and won’t seek to rock the boat unless given a reason.

    The debate will never be over. It is a never ending battle. Blacks have only been free for a generation. Think of your rights as a new born child – very fragile.

    You must not debate them on White superiority vs Black inferiority. Currently, this isn’t a debate you can win. Blacks have a long way to go yet. You just started out really. So any direct comparisons in accomplishments or mental abilities will put the blacks in a bad light.

    The debate is thus –

    Blacks deserve equal protection under the law.

    You will always win that argument. This is what is important. This is what you have only had for just a small time and could be taken away from you at anytime. This is what you must fight to keep. You keep this, for the most part, by demanding it through the court system, and most importantly, respecting other’s rights as well.

    All people in the United States has the right to peacefully gather and speak their minds. This isn’t just about the government, this is about all of us. These are inalienable rights and we should respect these rights for each other. This isn’t just about the state deciding if someone can speak their minds or not, this is about each of us allowing the right for each other.

    If you don’t respect this in other people, you will loose it for yourself.

    Allow them to meet. More importantly, allow them to segregate themselves from us. Let them go create their silly little “Whitetopia” and leave the rest of us to live in peace. If you don’t, they will rise up and take power for themselves. They have both the overall numbers and the ability – if public opinion ever goes their way. Which it will. It would only take a few incidents of violence against them, which could easily be staged considering their opponents wear masks – dumbasses. Someone, one of there own, could assassinate Taylor to build sympathy (it’s been done before).

    Then welcome back to the back of the bus.

    I ask you to do what’s in your heart. I’m old and maybe my ideas are as well. I could be very wrong in what I’m saying. But please give my words meditation and see if they ring true. If not, then that is fine.

    Thanks you for taking the time to communicate with me. It is appreciated.

  109. SUNNofaB.C.Rich says:

    I think that word has a specific meaning and that’s the meaning I apply to it. The specific meaning of the word is not derogatory. You obviously thought it was alright to kill people in the name of uncle sam when you used to build bombs for the military. Probably from a safe far from the frontlines area too. Probably how you live out your anarcho-communist fantasies too. With a safety net. Yeah that guy was right, you are a coward. Hows that G.I. bill working for ya, pissed off anarchist?

  110. Tariq says:

    It’s pretty funny that a guy who has repeatedly referred to me as “Tardiq”, and has done nothing but throw childish insults at me anonymously over the internet is telling me that I need to “mature” and “respect” him simply because he’s older than me. “Respect my elders”? Really? I respect anyone of any age until they give me a reason not to. You have given me plenty of reasons not to respect you. You have made it clear that you don’t respect me, but then you demand that I treat you with deference. I’m still suspicious that you even are the liberal veteran of civil rights that you claim to be. For all I know you are a white supremacist who is angry that the Westin won’t host your conference. Either way, you’ve been just as mean and nasty towards me as they have been.

    And no, you are incorrect, Imm did not back out of the debate, he gave Jared Taylor two differenct times, neither of which conflicted with the racist conference, and Taylor gave excuses to not show up. Taylor then went to his own racist web site and told an untrue story about why the debate couldn’t take place. Imm posted their entire email exchange up on his website, while Taylor on the other hand only posted part of the email exchange, so that he could make himself look good to his racist followers. I really don’t care though, as I don’t know Imm and I see no point in debating with people whose views are utterly ridiculous and have already been defeated in countless debates.

    I don’t know why you think it’s your place to tell The Eye how to fight against racism. It’s a tired old dynamic that you are playing out; an old white man telling a younger person of color what he “should do”. “Listen here, son, as old whitey here tells ya’ll colored folks how to be free.” People of color don’t need your advice about how to fight for themselves. They can figure that out just fine without your arrogant, paternalistic, condescending input. Especially since most of your advice is completely stupid and based on very racist assumptions. (Like that black people are incapable of fighting for themselves, so they need you to fight for them and be their liberator).

    By the way, I am a person of color too, and I don’t need advice from a mean-spirited old white guy about how to fight against white-supremacists who wish to see me discriminated against and turned into a second-class citizen. If you want to be an ally to people of color, then great, but if you just want to sit on the sidelines and anonymously give angry orders to the people who are doing the actual work, then you’re not needed.

    Lastly, no one has taken away the AmRen racists right to express themselves. As the United Steelworkers Union said, the AmRen racists are free to share their message “in any public park or on any private property owned by a like-minded bigot.” Individual business owners have no obligation to host these suit-and-tie neo-nazis on their own private property.

    All their talk about “freedom” is a joke when you consider that the keynote speaker for the AmRen conference is Nick Griffin, an Englishman who argues that people of color should all be deported, against their wills, out of England.

  111. Obviousman says:

    I’m sorry is your name not “Tardiq”?

    There is an old saying, “I may not agree with what you have to say, I’ll fight to the death to defend your right to say it.”

    “People of color don’t need your advice about how to fight for themselves. They can figure that out just fine without your arrogant, paternalistic, condescending input. Especially since most of your advice is completely stupid and based on very racist assumptions. (Like that black people are incapable of fighting for themselves, so they need you to fight for them and be their liberator).”

    Son, if I and other white people wouldn’t have gone down there, taught black people how to organize and get properly “lawyered up” – and risked and lost our lives you would still not have Civil Rights.

    At the time, you just weren’t capable of doing this yourself. I know it must be hard to hear, but it is a fact. You needed help. You will for the conceivable future due to how few your numbers are.

    Look, I came on, with the help of someone younger, trying to match the style of the posts and the way people were talking back and forth . I was just trying to relate. I believe it has made it impossible for me to have a civil conversation with you now. You seem to have a lot of anger to deal with. Once again, I am sorry. I thought you were someone completely different, but you’re just an immature kid with a lot of anger. I have nothing against you. I really am sorry for making you feel bad and confusing you with someone else.

    I wish you the best Tardiq and meant no disrespect.

  112. SUNNofaB.C.Rich says:

    all along I kinda thought you were a white guy with a not so clever subversive stick it to the man made up name, Tariq.

  113. Tariq says:

    There were plenty of black people in the south who knew how to organize long before you ever went down there to “teach them”. Not only were many black folks capable of organizing themselves, they did organize themselves. Many of the most effective civil rights and black liberation organizations were organized, led, and run by black people. You claim that it is a “fact” that black people are incapable of organizing themselves. It is not a fact at all. It is a racist assumption.

  114. Obviousman says:

    “You claim that it is a “fact” that black people are incapable of organizing themselves. It is not a fact at all. It is a racist assumption.”

    You just don’t understand the environment at the time and the overall state of blacks in America in the 40s and 50s.

    There were blacks organizations going back before I was born, but they were very small.

    It’s not that they weren’t smart enough or inferior or some such nonsense, it’s that they wouldn’t have been allowed to organize in a BIG way. Hell, we weren’t at first.

    Things are much different now. But without white support, modern black organizations will not be effective because of numbers.

    To my knowledge, none of the large, well known black organizations today, were started by blacks. Nor were they initially led by blacks – or even initially staffed by blacks.

    I’m starting to think you’re not black. This should be common knowledge to a black person.

    Does it somehow take away from your view of blacks that they needed help at the time? That they still need white support?

    Why? This would be true of any minority group. All minority groups need the help of the majority to have and hold onto equal rights.

    The fact is blacks didn’t do it by themselves. It doesn’t make them less of people. It just makes them a disadvantaged minority.

    If it turns out, that on average, blacks are less “book smart” than whites, does it change your view of them? Are they not worthy of equal rights in your eyes if they aren’t the same as other groups in test taking ability?

    I’m sure it doesn’t.

    A hand full of white people risked everything to get the Civil Rights movement going. Overtime we put blacks in positions of leadership and organizing duties. Today black civil rights group are mostly ran and staffed by blacks.

    I believe this is a great thing and I don’t see how it reflects negatively on blacks. It’s a beautiful story of two races working together to achieve something important.

    This is not only an historical fact, it is my life.

    Why take away from that with this belief that blacks are inferior because they needed help to get going? That’s what you seem to be saying. I know you don’t mean it that way, but look at it this way.

    Blacks needed white help to get the movement going. You say that is a racist position. Which I guess you’re saying that saying blacks needed help makes them inferior.

    So what is it? Is history racist?

    The Civil Rights movement would not have got started without whites. That’s what happened. Whites taught blacks how to organize and marched with them to keep the violence at a minimum. They would have been suicidal to march all by themselves. It doesn’t make blacks inferior or weak, it just makes them an oppressed minority.

    It wasn’t the filming of blacks being hit with fire hoses and attacked by dogs, it was the filming of whites having this done to them that swayed public opinion.

    Overall, white people didn’t give a damn about blacks through the 40s – 50s. Things didn’t change until the 60s, mostly after my friends were MURDERED. My WHITE friends. Plenty of blacks had been murdered in the name of Civil Rights.

    NO ONE CARED!

    You said you’re a person of color. I take it you’re a minority but not black? I don’t know of course, from other things you’ve said I wouldn’t think you are African American. If you have black friends, try to meet with one of their older relatives. Someone over 60.

    I think you’ll believe it coming from an older black person as opposed to some anonymous poster on the world wide web.

    White people organized blacks in the 40s – 50s almost exclusively. In the 60s blacks began to take over these organizations that were made for them.

    This should not lower your opinion of blacks, it should illustrate the position they were in relative to the rest of society.

    History is not racist.

    White people GAVE blacks the Civil Rights act. Blacks didn’t give themselves the Civil Rights Act. This would have been impossible. They didn’t have proper representation. Hell, that was the whole friggin’ point of the movement.

    I believe if I live to a 100, I’ll live to see the reversal of everything gained in the 60s. I believe this because so few people understand what happened and why. Blacks will wake up one day to find themselves abandoned and alone. Whites will go back to looking the other way as the worst of them take power.

    The only thing that survived the 60s seems to be the resentment, not the hope. If you would have told me that I would have felt this hopeless after the election of the first African American President, I would have laughed – though mostly for suggesting that I would live to see a black president.

    So maybe God has a bigger plan. I HOPE so.

  115. Tariq says:

    Man, you have a seriously warped view of history. “White people gave blacks the Civil Rights Act”? Are you out of your mind? One of our nation’s greatest historians, Howard Zinn, passed away last week. He was older than you claim to be, and he was very involved in the civil rights movement. He tells a very different story about that movement than you do. I suggest you do a little reading and educate yourself some more. Your own racist assumptions seem to have clouded your own understanding. You completely ignore the years of hard work and struggle that black people put into the fight for equality. You completely ignore all of that and pretend like white people are saviors who flew in and saved the day. White people made the Civil Rights Act because they had no other choice. Black people and some white allies (note that I said allies, not saviors), created such a strong anti-racist movement, that the U.S. government had no other choice. They could either pass the Civil Rights Act, or they could face revolution. People like Malcolm X made it clear that if black people weren’t going to get their equality through peaceful, lawful means, then they’d get their equality through the bullet. That message scared the hell out of white America. I was at a talk given by an old veteran of the Civil Rights movement, and he said that originally, white people didn’t want to listen to people like Martin Luther King Jr., but then when people like Malcolm X started talking, then white people realized that they’d better listen to people like Dr. King, or they’d have to face people like Malcolm X. The Civil Rights Act was passed not because white people are the saviors of black people, but because black people built up a strong enough resistance that white people had no other choice. Don’t be so quick to pat yourself on the back for “saving” black people.

  116. Tariq says:

    Also, it’s ridiculous that you even need to be told this, but there are plenty of black people who are “book smart”. Are you kidding me, man? Is it possible for you to post a comment without saying something that is totally racist?

  117. SUNNofaB.C.Rich says:

    Man, dude… YOU have a seriously warped version of history… lol… so you listened to some crotchety old man that gave a seriously exagerrated (to put it lightly) version of fairly recent history that jives with something that makes you feel like a real man…So, is that in a real book? By a real “historian”. By the way **** Howard Zinn.

  118. Obviousman says:

    “there are plenty of black people who are “book smart”. Are you kidding me, man?”

    I never said there weren’t. I asked you a question-
    If it turns out, that on average, blacks are less “book smart” than whites, does it change your view of them? Are they not worthy of equal rights in your eyes if they aren’t the same as other groups in test taking ability?

    It’s OK that you didn’t answer it, though I am curious how you feel. So I asked. My point is that the whole inferior/superior thing is unimportant. It has nothing to with if someone deserves equal rights.

    “Man, you have a seriously warped view of history. “White people gave blacks the Civil Rights Act”? Are you out of your mind?”

    It’s very true. There were no blacks in either the Senate or the House when the act passed. Whites gave blacks the Civil Rights Act. Easily one of the greatest moments in the history of this nation. The majority giving minorities equality. Never happened at any other point in history.

    It shouldn’t make you angry that this happened, but fill you with hope.

    “ne of our nation’s greatest historians, Howard Zinn, passed away last week. He was older than you claim to be, and he was very involved in the civil rights movement. He tells a very different story about that movement than you do.”

    Howard Z was easily one of the warmest and most thoughtful people I have ever met. Unfortunately I didn’t get to spend a lot of time with him, but when I did, he had a way of making you feel important. He remembered me many many many years later. Great guy.

    He was very important to the Civil Rights movement. It’s a shame I’ve never seen him really given the credit that he deserves. It looks like he has a big Hollywood type movie coming out. I look forward to seeing it. I wish he would have lived to see it. I believe it is based on his history book, which I have a signed copy of. I’ve read everything the man has written, several times.

    I have his books, on which page exactly, does he disagree with what I’m saying?

    You realize he was “white” correct? He was one of the main “white” people who helped organize the movement.

    “You completely ignore the years of hard work and struggle that black people put into the fight for equality.”

    Where do I say that? I’m very curious. Since it isn’t my perspective, I don’t understand how I could have given such an impression. Blacks risked the most and gave the most. My point was, that no one seemed to care when it was black people dying. They just didn’t. Yes I agree that that was wrong. Of course I do. That’s what I’m trying to say, but you don’t seem to want to listen.

    You must be very young.

    Do you ignore the years of hard work that whites put into Civil Rights for blacks and women? Is that what it is? Do you not like white people? Can you answer that?

    “They could either pass the Civil Rights Act, or they could face revolution. People like Malcolm X made it clear that if black people weren’t going to get their equality through peaceful, lawful means, then they’d get their equality through the bullet. The Civil Rights Act was passed not because white people are the saviors of black people, but because black people built up a strong enough resistance that white people had no other choice.”

    Oh PLEASE! You have GOT to be kidding me right? Really? Seriously? You believe this?

    Blacks would last all of an hour against the much larger and better armed white population of this country. Back then, a “revolution” is exactly what the South wanted. They wanted an excuse to get rid of black people. Maybe times have changed, but back then, as a group, no one was afraid of blacks. They just didn’t have the resources to fight a Civil War against the whites.

    You realize that they were shooting us? Not the other way around? My whole point is that NO ONE likes violent and overly aggressive people. They liked us because we weren’t. We weren’t threatening violence son. Just the opposite. We were the targets of violence. No one was afraid of us, they felt bad for us.

    Whites gave blacks civil rights because they grew to dislike the other side.

    I don’t think you understand what the term “disadvantaged minority” actually means.

    Have you read Howard’s books? Have you really?

    White people didn’t give blacks Civil Rights out of fear of a black revolution son. I’m glad that blacks get a lot more respect now a days, but at the time, they were still viewed as inferior. I’m glad that has mostly changed. My fear is with genetic science just starting out with all the assumptions that are made with a new philosophy and the whole IQ test bullshit, that blacks may be forced back into the lie that they are inferior.

    You saw the earlier posts with the statistics. That stuff drives me up the wall, but it will convert those who want the easy way out. Which I believe, from experience, is most people.

    My point is that we must stay away from all the inferior/superior bullshit. Blacks haven’t had as much time with equality and still have a long ways to go as a group. They’ll loose any direct comparison of statistics. It’s not a fair comparison. So we should avoid the argument all together and focus on the right blacks have before society. In this way we must fight with everything we have to keep them equal.

    This is all I’m saying. Your anger clouds your mind to my words. Please let go of your anger Tardiq. It does you no good.

  119. Obviousman says:

    Just to be clear, blacks were under 10 percent of the population in the 40s – 60s. They generally weren’t allowed to buy guns legally.

    No one thought they were going to start a civil war. They were being murdered, not doing the murdering.

    Please don’t paint the overall black movement of the civil rights era as militant, it wasn’t. We ALL wanted peace and equality. Please don’t allow this idea that we were scary to grow. We weren’t scary. We didn’t threaten people. It happened to us.

    It worries me that people would think that whites were afraid of a black revolution and gave out civil rights because of that. It isn’t true, and makes us look like the monsters we were fighting against.

    • Tariq says:

      I never said anything about a civil war or murder. When I said that the civil rights movement was becoming increasingly revolutionary, I was not using the word “revolution” in the shallow sense of overthrowing the government and replacing it with another government. I used it in the deeper sense of a struggle that attacks problems at the root and seeks to seriously transform society itself, rather than a struggle that merely seeks reform of the system.

      Revolution in that sense does not necessarily imply violence. In fact, some of the most revolutionary people in the anti-racist struggles back then were non-violent. Even people like Dr. King were becoming increasingly radical in that sense. Dr. King was not simply calling for mere reforms and a few laws to end segregation. He was linking racism with things like imperialism, capitalism, and war, and really digging deeper into the roots of oppression. He spoke out against the U.S. invasion of Vietnam just as passionately as he spoke out against segregation. He called the U.S. government the “greatest purveyor of violence in the world”.

      It was this kind of radicalization within the civil rights movement that made the federal government see a need to make reforms like the Civil Rights Act. The idea was, “If we don’t make some reforms, then the civil rights movement will continue to become increasingly revolutionary, and start to challenge not only segregation, but the entire system itself.”

      The same was true for the New Deal. Because of the Great Depression, working class people were starting to lose faith in the entire capitalist system. Socialist ideas were becoming increasingly popular. Rather than seeing a strong anti-capitalist movement grow and strengthen, the federal government chose to push through reforms, what became known as the New Deal. The federal government would rather pass some reforms than face revolution.

  120. Tariq says:

    No, I don’t hate white people, and no, I don’t argue that white people had no part in the civil rights movement. Yes, I am aware that Howard Zinn was white, and yes, I have read alot of his work and listened to some of his talks. Though I never got a chance to meet him persoanlly, he’s one of the most inspiring people I’ve ever crossed paths with.

    I first read one of his books “A People’s History of the United States” when I was still in the military. When my NCOIC (non-commisioned officer in charge) saw me reading it, he told the sergeant who was my supervisor to “keep an eye” on me, because I “might do something drastic”. I was very impressed with “A People’s History” and I went on to read alot more of Zinn’s writings. Never does he say that black people were incapable of organizing themselves and so white people had to go save them. He would have thought such an idea to be absurd.

    He rightly gives credit to the white people who fought for racial equality, but he does not treat them like saviors of incapable inferiors, the way you do. He argues that black people actually took the lead in Civil Rights struggles, and that white people acted as allies, not saviors.

    In fact, in his talk “You Can’t Be Neutral on a Moving Train” (available from AK Press) he told the story of how he got involved in the civil rights movement. He said that it was his black students who were doing sit-ins to protest segregation, that led him into the struggle. He didn’t lead them to do sit-ins, but they led him to get involved as an ally. He did not see them as inferiors who needed to be led, but he saw them as inspiring, intelligent, young people that he wanted to work with as equals.

    Zinn did not see the passing of the Civil Rights Act as white people “giving” black people equality. He saw it as the federal government having no other realistic option.

    He argued, in every book he ever wrote, and in numerous speeches and articles, that governments don’t give people rights. Whenever it may seem that governments do make progress, as in the case of the Civil Rights Act, it is actually a case of governments following progress, not making progress. According to Zinn, people’s movements make progress, not governments. A strong movement for Civil Rights, a movement that, according to Howard Zinn, was organized and led by black people, with white people getting involved as allies, created a climate in the nation that made it impossible for the state to continue with the policies of segregation and racial discrimination.

    So yes, white people in the U.S. government signed the Civil Rights Act into law, but why? It’s because after years of trying and failing to squash the civil rights movement, they had no choice but to either continue failing to squash the movement, and in the process continue to lose the image of legitimacy in eyes of the governed, and thereby weaken themselves and face a movement which was becoming increasingly revolutionary, or they could pass the Civil Rights Act.

    They chose to pass the act rather than face the negative consequences of continuing their racist polices. That’s why Howard Zinn didn’t argue that the Civil Rights Act was an instance of white people “giving” black people rights. He argued that it was an instance of black people taking their rights. He uses this same type of thinking to describe not just the civil rights movement, but to describe just about every step this nation has taken in progressive directions. Governments don’t give people rights, people take their rights from government.

    Progress comes through people’s movements, not through governments. That idea is at the heart of so much of Zinn’s work. He was not a big fan of government and did not see government as an avenue for social change. In one talk I heard him give, (a talk about Emma Goldman which is available from AK Press), he called himself an anarchist. “I guess I’m an anarchist”, are his exact words. According to Zinn, it’s organizers and agitators and rabble-rousers and rebels who make social change, often in spite of governments, and never because of governments.

    I don’t disagree with you that there were white people in the civil rights movement who did alot of good, important work. I simply disagree with you that they were the superior white saviors of incapable black inferiors, and I disagree with you that “white people gave blacks” their rights. I see black people and white people as equals. I don’t see any race as superior or inferior.

    Yes, I agree with you that all this talk about IQ is irrelevant. People must have equal rights regardless of what intelligence tests say. But you seem to accept the claim that black people are less intelligent than white people as a fact. I say it is not a fact and that those who argue so (such as the AmRen white supremacists) are using out-dated psuedo-science and bone-headed analysis to support their ridiculous claims.

    The false idea that black people are inferior to white people creates a climate that is conducive to prejudice, discrimination, and terrible human rights abuses. That is why it is not a good idea to disregard all of the superiority/inferiority talk among these white supremacists. That is why it is important to expose them for the frauds that they are, and not let them get away with presenting themselves as legitimate intellectuals.

    You are correct that what a person’s intelligence level is should not determine how many human and civil rights that person should have. Everyone should have equal rights regardless of what some standardized test says. Even if it were true that black people were less intelligent than white people (which it is not), then black people should still have the same rights as white people.

    But in the real world, if people can get away with labeling a group as inferior, you can be sure that discrimation and abuse against that group will soon follow. AmRen has been trying for years to get the idea of white racial superiorty into the mainstream. They are failing. The decisions of the Marriott and the Westin to turn these white supremacists away is exactly the kind of thing that will ensure that they continue to fail. After all, in 2010, legitimate intellectuals are able to have conferences in hotels without any of the kinds problems AmRen has faced. In 2010, legitimate intellectuals don’t have to keep the location of their conferences a secret like AmRen has to do now.

    Let go of my anger? Who do you think you are, Yoda? My name is not “Tardiq”. At first I thought you were doing that to insult me, but now I think you are doing that because you are just a bit old and maybe have a hard time reading words on the computer. I’ll giver you the benefit of the doubt and assume it is old age, and not immature meanness that is making you call me that.

  121. SUNNofaB.C.Rich says:

    Apparently “A people’s history of the United States” is the ONLY history book you’ve read.

  122. Tariq says:

    Actually, I majored in history in college and I got an A in every university history class I ever took (with the exception of one B), so, I’ve read several history books by several different historians, written several papers based on those readings, and I will likely read several more. Zinn’s work stands out head and shoulders above most of what I’ve read, and he has been very influential to the study of history in the U.S. overall. While I have had history professors who don’t always agree with Zinn, I’ve never had a professor that wasn’t familiar with his work and that didn’t respect him. Let me guess, you’ve never read anything Howard Zinn wrote but you read about him on Wikipedia and now you think you’re an expert? I don’t understand why you keep commenting the way you do. Do you think you’re teaching me some kind of a lesson? Do you think you’ve changed my mind about anything? Do you think your uneducated remarks are adding anything meaningful to the conversation?

  123. SUNNofaB.C.Rich says:

    the “dirty side” of American history certainly not a definitive all encompassing history by any means but to you it stands “head and shoulders” above most of the other “history” you say you’ve read. Obviously. That’s why I made the statement I did. I read it in the military too and guess what… nobody cared, no dramatic warnings about being a drastic action taker blah blah. Didn’t you make a big deal out of how you understand people aren’t going to agree with you, or like you etc etc. So… what’s not to understand? You really might want to work on not being such an unimaginative childish totalitarian bore though… I mean who’s gonna want you in their commune?

  124. Tariq says:

    Zinn covered far more than just what you call the “dirty side of American history”. The thing I like most about his work is the inspiring stories of the people who stood up for themselves and who fought against oppression. American history is full of stories of people who did amazing things. Before Howard Zinn came along, alot of those stories were ignored or marginalized by mainstream historians, who focused more on official, standardized versions of history. I also like his “bottom up” approach to history, the way he acknowledged the under-dogs, the outcasts, and the rebels who challenged systems of domination, and the way he distrusted rulers and official, standardized storylines. Nowadays there are alot more historians doing the kind of thing that Howard Zinn did, but when “A People’s History” first came out, it was a very groundbreaking book. I never said it was a definitive all encompassing history of the U.S. Howard Zinn didn’t even think it was that. I don’t know of any single book that could be called a definitive all encompassing history, and I don’t know of any historian who claims to have written such a thing. Just because I think it is an excellent book, that doesn’t mean that I think it is the only book about U.S. history worth reading. There are many good historians who’ve written many good books about U.S. history. I still say that Zinn’s work stands head and shoulders above most of the U.S. history that I’ve read. That’s just my opinion and you don’t have to agree with me. I don’t understand why my opinion makes you so angry. If you find me to be a “bore”, then why do you keep reading and commenting on everything I write on this blog? If I bore you, well, no one is forcing you to read anything I write, and I’m certainly not asking for your opinion.

  125. Obviousman says:

    Tariq,

    I haven’t written for the last few days because my “assistant” took off. We got in a huge argument over the whole “Tardiq” thing.

    I didn’t know. I have a very large CRT monitor with the text size set to really high, but it’s still very hard for me.

    He sometimes (to be honest, mostly) reads me the posts, generally I try to type some of my responses, but, it’s hard to admit you’re this old and useless, you’ll see if you’re unfortunate to live this long, he types NEARLY ALL my responses.

    He also helps “young up” my writing.

    I’m really sorry about you being called “tard”. If it means anything, he was meaning to only make fun of Mr. Magoo, which is to say ME.

    I had a little cousin with what I believe was Downs. I’m not completely sure. Birth defects were MUCH more common back then. We called a person with her condition an idiot then, no joke. But it wasn’t meant as a put down, though kids would use it that way on other kids, even then. Society later used the word retarded, but she had died before that.

    Then that word became an attack, then came the word “retard” followed closely there after by the condensed version “tard”.

    I would never use any of those words as an attack. I am very sorry. I told him to go to hell and not to come back. He came back a few days later and apologized, which is good or you wouldn’t be seeing this now.

    He’s just young. He doesn’t understand sometimes.

    He has to go, so this is all I can say for now. I have a story about Howard for you that you’ll like. I also hope to talk to you more about where we disagree. There’ll be no more “younging up” of my writing. I don’t think it helps and I think it’s abrasive. Hopefully my normal style doesn’t put you to sleep.

    -Roger

  126. Tariq says:

    Roger,
    I greatly prefer your normal style to your “younged up” style. Even though we have some clear disagreements, when it’s you talking, rather than someone else talking for you, you seem like a decent, interesting person who I would actually enjoy conversing with.

  127. Tom Semson says:

    I find it odd that any Mormon group would repudiate a group talking about lineages and how important lineages (and thus genetics) really can be, when the Bible is largely about lineages!

    Jesus went only to “lost” Israelites and sent his disciples only to them (Mat 10:6 & 15:24). [He does NOT pray/intercede for all in the world. (John 17:9) which churches wanting to pack pews always ignore!] _
    It’s this group to whom pertains “adoption” (Rom 9:4) which was anciently a term for giving a son adult powers (heirship) when he became an acceptable adult heir – not taking in a baby of a very different race (a new bizarre idea)! {Explicitly “adoption” for the Elect is resurrection of your body, says Rom 8:23, not taking in a person of strange lineage!)

    Therefore, as a Christian, I’m very interested in how real science of lineage, genetics, development, and populations groups, relates to God’s Plan. Such a conference as American Renaissance might present such information, even if the speaker doesn’t realize how his work pertains to what the Bible says. (He might even be an atheist – how ironic!) I would have gone to this except I heard about it only days before it started, and the flight to Washington was going to be prohibitively expensive at the last moment!

    And if I had booked a ticket, it seems I would have lost my money because anti-free-speech fanatics have coerced the conference to be cancelled by the hotel!!

    PS: Addressing the DISPERSION (RSV/NRSV) [Israelites who migrated to Greek cities named in I Peter 1:1] they are called “a chosen generation [literaly a "race" as in RSV/NRSV], an holy nation, a peculiar people, that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light.” – I Peter 2:9 Lineage/genes matter!

    {Yes, I know the “great commission” to go to all nations, Mat 29:19, but that word “nations” is tricky and the solution to the apparent contradiction of Mat 28 and the other lines I used, is that the first time “nations” is used, it is DEFINED. Gen 10:5 first speaks of “nations” and “gentiles” in KJV, both for Hebrew word “gowy, and it specifically pertains here to Adamic children of Noah’s families: the list of their names fills Gen. 10. Logically these are the “nations” to go to! And Adam was the root of the only lineage actually called “children” of God [to whom pertains "adoption" says the larger quote of all Rom 8:21-23]. Note that “Adam the son of God” ends the genealogy of Luke 3:38 showing the ancestry of Jesus Christ! Adam is son of God; Jesus is Son of God

    But archeology and geo-science shows many human types lived long before Adam (created about 4000 BC if you use Masoretic data as in KJV, or about 5500 BC if you use Septuagint data.) I’m a Bible scholar concerned with Genesis lineages and chronologies. I’m a geo-scientist very concerned with earth chronologies and genetics of all “human” types and their differences.
    Am-Rem conference is VERY PERTINENT to any thinking
    Christian, but some hot-heads destroyed this. SHAME!

  128. Remember, when the politically correct use the term racist, they simply mean white boy, whitey, or honky!

  129. Russ says:

    @ Joseph Morgan: You hit the nail on the head. “Racist” is simply a term that means “White person” or more specifically a White person who understands that the “multicultural/diversity” experiment has failed miserably and must be discontinued. Anti-racist, likewise, simply means anti-White. Those who use these terms are truly demented.

  130. You should be ashamed of writing such a deceptive article on AR. If Joesph Smith and Bringham Young were still alive they would have you flogged, tarred and feathered! The LDS never allowed Blacks to have the Preisthood in the beginnings of the church. Did you know why? Because two of the first Negros in the church were sleeping with White women! Ask your bishop and he’ll tell you I’m right!
    By the way, Jews are allowed at AR conferences. Who’s the bonehead now, pal? Aren’t you ashamed of yourself?

  131. Fred says:

    Mean people suck

  132. Iamdavid says:

    And, this is why the meek shall inherit the Earth…

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